2016 Combine

[That Guy]

training for the 40 is a waste of time. yes, you can train to run a faster 40, but it doesn't actually translate to helping you in real games (at all). the combine overall is less useful than it used to be, because instead of honest stats and interviews, everyone's preparing for them like a sat cram class.

definitely not useless, but the drill results have a higher variance to on field performance now than 15 years ago.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

training for the 40 is a waste of time. yes, you can train to run a faster 40, but it doesn't actually translate to helping you in real games (at all).

I'm on the other side.

Training for the 40 can make you faster. Many people don't know how to run fast. And if they learn some mechanics and techniques of running they can certainly run faster at the combine and be faster on the field. There's a reason why most of the really fast guys in the NFL have track in their background.

But, being faster doesn't necessarily equate to being better.

[DYoungJelly]

Originally Posted by 30gut

There's a reason why most of the really fast guys in the NFL have track in their background.

The really slow guys usually don't make track teams.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I'm on the other side.

Training for the 40 can make you faster. Many people don't know how to run fast. And if they learn some mechanics and techniques of running they can certainly run faster at the combine and be faster on the field. There's a reason why most of the really fast guys in the NFL have track in their background.

But, being faster doesn't necessarily equate to being better.

who actually got faster? please cite an NFL player that thinks learning body lean for a 40 in a t shirt helped them become a great speed threat in the NFL.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

who actually got faster? please cite an NFL player that thinks learning body lean for a 40 in a t shirt helped them become a great speed threat in the NFL.

Lol, yup because that's exactly what I'm saying.

Anyhow, there is an entire area of professional sports based on science and kinesiology that disagrees with you. But to each their own.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 30gut

Lol, yup because that's exactly what I'm saying.

Anyhow, there is an entire area of professional sports based on science and kinesiology that disagrees with you. But to each their own.

you're either being purposefully obtuse or you're trying really hard to deflect instead of actually answering criticism.

kinesiology is a thing, i never said it wasn't, but nice try on not actually responding to the post. please tell me how training for the 40 helps in real games. i don't know any NFL player that runs a faster 40 when they're 27 or 30 then they did when they were 23. if you could study being faster and it actually worked, how could that hold true?

shaving a 1/20th of a second on your 40 doesn't help you cut or block or run routes any better, and it's completely different than being geared up (weighted down) and having hands in your face in a real game. outside of a corner completely forgetting to jam DJ on a fly route, it basically has no bearing beyond somewhat comparative speed.

[30gut]

TEs coming up today, haven't followed the TE this year at all, might get some good insight (or not) from Greg Olsen as provides TE commentary

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I'm on the other side.

Training for the 40 can make you faster. Many people don't know how to run fast. And if they learn some mechanics and techniques of running they can certainly run faster at the combine and be faster on the field. There's a reason why most of the really fast guys in the NFL have track in their background.

But, being faster doesn't necessarily equate to being better.

Oh my God this is fucking nonsense. Dude seriously? First off, almost all the training that goes into coaching a 40 time is focused on the start. Getting off quickly and getting to top speed, which during a 40 is done based on a starting position that not at all mimics the starting position you'd use on a football field - it's a track start. That translates exactly nil to the NFL. For corners, it's not how fast they can run, it's how quickly they can flip their hips and change directions, and then once up to speed it's how fast they can run WHILE TRACKING THE BALL IN THE AIR. Technique used while running on the track and technique used while you're looking up to find a ball in flight is completely different. Same for WRs. For linemen speed isn't even an issue, it's explosiveness off the line, but not like a track start is in the 40 where your goal is to explode and then get upright at top speed as fast as possible, the goal is to explode while keeping your pad level as low as possible.

Running backs only run upright once they hit the open field. Before that, they keep their pad level low, and only get to the open field with quickness and agility.

And besides, do you really think players remember their training for the 40 when they're on the field? If you don't keep practicing something you lose it, and no coach on an NFL team is teaching them how to get off to a fast start in the 40. It almost sounds like you've never played a sport at the high school or college level - the training doesn't stick with you unless you have muscle memory with it. You have to drill it over and over. And nobody drills it like that in the NFL.

[30gut]

I agree the real question is the permanence of what they learn. I know many NFL and other professional athletes include speed work as part of their offseason training.

I disagree that the training for the 40 is a waste time. I also disagree that kinesiology is fucking nonsense.

Cheers.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by 30gut

I also disagree that kinesiology is fucking nonsense.

Cheers.

no one is saying it is.

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

no one is saying it is.

Suffice it to say we disagree, apparently very strongly on your part that training for the 40 is a waste of time. I'm truthfully not exactly sure what Schneed thought is fucking nonsense. But, we disagree. I didn't intend for the discussion take the turn it did and I apologize for my role there.

Anyhow here is some combine stuff:

Links to audiovault for Scotty and Jay:

ESPN 980 Audio Vault - Play Now

5 Takeaways: Scot McCloughan At The Combine

5 Takeaways: Scot McCloughan At The Combine

"This year we had 117 juniors come out, or underclassmen. Last year was 65. So that plays into it, too,” McCloughan said. “But that’s scary. That’s why it’s so important to be here and get measurable, get the medical, get the interview stuff with the juniors, the underclassmen. But it’s a strong draft, very strong.”



5 Takeaways: Jay Gruden At The Combine

5 Takeaways: Jay Gruden At The Combine

“And he’s still in the process of thinking about it. I think he’s learning towards playing, I would guess right now. But we’ll have to wait and see. He’s put a lot of good years in. Body was a little bit beat up last year at the end of the year, but I think he’s starting to recover, feel a lot better so I think his mind will change a little bit as he gets closer to time to kick off.”

“Keenan finished off strong for us, was good in the locker room,” Gruden said. “But I think he’s going to hit free agency and probably land somewhere else.”

[30gut]

Originally Posted by That Guy

...the combine overall is less useful than it used to be, because instead of honest stats and interviews, everyone's preparing for them like a sat cram class.

definitely not useless, but the drill results have a higher variance to on field performance now than 15 years ago.

I think the evaluation aspect is better then its ever been.

Teams like Seattle (where Scott hails) uses comps like the SPARQ to compare prospects; its technological advancements like SPARQ that make the combine results more useful.

NFL FO and organizations are well aware of the prep process. Its up to them to figure out how to get the information they want. And the prep process also helps expose guys that aren't putting the work in.