The Anti-Media Media

[ExtremeArt]

Originally Posted by joecrisp

Wow, Art. That's news to me. I don't recall ever promoting MYSELF to anyone at Redskins Park. I quite frequently promoted The Warpath around Redskins Park, as I'm sure you have promoted ExtremeSkins. I'd be interested to know who in particular was put off by my presence there and why. As I've said, I always tried to conduct myself as professionally as possible. There were some players with whom I tried to develop a better rapport in order to benefit The Warpath, but that's no different than anything any other representative would do to benefit their constituents. If they were put off by that, then someone should have told me.

You see, I was there, by myself, with no one there to guide me as to how things are supposed to work. I didn't have the benefit of a guinea pig who went before me to let me know what I should and should not do. I did my best to pass on what I had learned to TK and Tarhog, as well as the guys from TheHogs.net, when they arrived for minicamp in the spring. I really wish someone had told me to back off, if that's what was necessary. I truly thought I was being as nice and polite to everyone as I could possibly be.

I can't really go into details due to personal trusts I've developed, but, I have been working to rehabilitate your image with those who would help me bring you into a coverage role -- had you had an interest in such -- as a primary "beat" reporter for the site given you are closer and have the experience.

I won't do that any longer, obviously, given your position as to who we are in your mind, but, I thought you should know.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

They had all the journalists capable of being journalists they needed. They didn't need fans being the same.

Isn't that the big problem? That they don't have journalists capable of being journalists? Isn't this one reason Extereskins was brought on? To offer an 'unfilitered' fan's view?

[Tarhog]

Originally Posted by joecrisp

I did my best to pass on what I had learned to TK and Tarhog, as well as the guys from TheHogs.net, when they arrived for minicamp in the spring.

Thats absolutely true, and Joe, we really appreciated it.

[FRPLG]

Man we all saw these types of discussions coming when this whole deal went down didn't we?

And Exteremskins guys. I think we all appreciate you all for coming here to actually discuss this.

[ExtremeArt]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

Isn't that the big problem? That they don't have journalists capable of being journalists? Isn't this one reason Extereskins was brought on? To offer an 'unfilitered' fan's view?

No, not really.

ES was brought on to provide fans a place to talk about the team so they wouldn't have to build it themselves . It was our idea to bring a Fan View column where we'd attempt to put forth areas fans were discussing while at the same time taking a position on those views.

The Arrington column which many did not like because it distinctly taunted some fans, was very controversial at the Park just for the reasons I saw in this thread. Do they really want to divide fans on their official site. I actually credit them for having the guts to publish it and thank them for it.

One thing I can promise anyone who wonders, no one has sold out or altered positions based on the relationship. If the team tries to make everyone go to a single MasterCard for all payment while I have voice, you can bet they'll get absolutely hammered . So far my natural inclination as a fan is to believe in experienced, proven coaches who set direction rather than individual players I may love. That's why I didn't weep a whole lot when we lost Smoot, who was my favorite.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Which brings me to my third point. I know you're a journalist Joe, so I can understand why this would be an issue for you. But by and large, nobody cares if a little less press box space is available to real journalists. I totally agree with you that Dan Snyder is holding up his middle finger to the press on this move. He's giving it to them right in the ass. Is it a dick move? Sure. But the average fan doesn't care.

It's not like he's sticking his middle finger up to all journalists. Never did Dan Snyder say he had a problem with all journalism. He said, in his ExtremeSkins chat, that he has a problem with inaccuracies in the media. And he's got a point. That doesn't mean all of the press was inaccurate though.

We've had many discussions on this site which highlighted our feelings that Dan Snyder has gotten a bad rap as an owner, more so that he deserves. He has made some solid football moves lately which have gone unrecognized because of SOME of the media's inability to let go of their initial impression of him; that he is a meddling owner who deserves to fail. I assert that THOSE members of the media were not doing their homework and not giving him credit where credit was due. To those members of the media I think they deserve Dan Snyder's F YOU, and I join him. I say F YOU to Pastabelly for his refusal to give any credit free of underhanded digs, I say F YOU to the Post for taking the ticket spat public in the papers, and I say F YOU to any journalist who still writes that Dan Snyder is still a meddlesome owner without any supporting evidence other than the actions he took 4 years ago.

In the end, I can see where Snyder is coming from. He has been victimized by a portion of the media. I can see where you are coming from too, because it has robbed some honest, hardworking journalists like yourself of some space in the pressbox. But to that I say don't blame Dan Snyder, blame the journalists who refuse to report objective material. They are the ones that ruined it for you.

maybe he's "victim-ized" because he keeps shoving shit in the media's face... you said no one cares about the press-box thing, but i'm sure the journalists do, and it may even affect what they write. Danny has been notorious for doing b**chy things to the media and over-reacting, so its no surprise they don't like him. He's a victim about as much as water isn't wet.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

I can't really go into details due to personal trusts I've developed, but, I have been working to rehabilitate your image with those who would help me bring you into a coverage role -- had you had an interest in such -- as a primary "beat" reporter for the site given you are closer and have the experience.

I won't do that any longer, obviously, given your position as to who we are in your mind, but, I thought you should know.

He was there for three years, you come along and he gets told the day before (after already booking rooms etc) that its a no-go, but just for him... and he's got no right to be upset?

If its been this long and he still has zero love from inside the park for whatever reasons that you won't share, I highly doubt they'd suddenly 180 now. Maybe if you clued him in before that post about anything he wouldn't seem so bad to you personally.

[ExtremeArt]

Originally Posted by That Guy

He was there for three years, you come along and he gets told the day before (after already booking rooms etc) that its a no-go, but just for him... and he's got no right to be upset?

If its been this long and he still has zero love from inside the park for whatever reasons that you won't share, I highly doubt they'd suddenly 180 now. Maybe if you clued him in before that post about anything he wouldn't seem so bad to you personally.

At no point did I say or hint that Joe seemed bad to me personally. I have no ill-will or anger or disappointment in Joe in the slightest. I saw his post as it was sent to me to look at and I thought I'd let him know something and express my sympathy for the situation he found himself under.

As you may recall, no fan sites of any sort received camp access. We did ONLY on August 9 after the deal was solidified on August 8, up to which point we thought it would fall through. The decision to block fan sites was made long before. I think I even mentioned it on ES that we were denied access to camp some weeks prior but I don't know the time frame of that off the top of my head.

[SmootSmack]

Joe Crisp doesn't need me to speak up for him, but I will. Reporting on the Redskins has been a labor of love for Joe Crisp that he's done out of his own pocket for years, and he's missed precious time with his wife, family, and friends to do this. And to build what he thought was a solid relationship with the team. Shame on him I guess for being mature, responsible, and professional.

Joe and I don't agree on a lot of things when it comes to the Redskins. But I've met him and talked to him several times on the phone. He's a solid man. When it comes to The Warpath, he's only wanted one thing-to provide it with the best camp coverage possible. And only the moderators know this, but a couple of years ago Joe actually asked if one of us could help him out, maybe even relieve him for a little bit, during camp. So any notion that he's doing this just for himself is absurd.

But now he's being accused here on our message board of having been self-serving and obtrusive. I don't think I'm alone in saying it was completely out of line to call Joe out like that in a public discussion. If you're going to make a claim like that, tell it to him personally and give him specifics. To just toss it out here the way it was done is plain wrong.

Sorry, I'm just really bothered by the way Joe was called out like that.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

As you may recall, no fan sites of any sort received camp access. We did ONLY on August 9 after the deal was solidified on August 8, up to which point we thought it would fall through. The decision to block fan sites was made long before. I think I even mentioned it on ES that we were denied access to camp some weeks prior but I don't know the time frame of that off the top of my head.

Are you saying there was no correlation between everyone being denied access to camp and the deal that was in the works between ES and the Redskins?

I find that very hard to believe.

[extremeskins]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Are you saying there was no correlation between everyone being denied access to camp and the deal that was in the works between ES and the Redskins?

I find that very hard to believe.

Why don't you check our ExtremeSkins TC reports (by myself specifically) between August 1st and 6th. Go see what side of the fence I was on.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by ExtremeArt

At no point did I say or hint that Joe seemed bad to me personally. I have no ill-will or anger or disappointment in Joe in the slightest. I saw his post as it was sent to me to look at and I thought I'd let him know something and express my sympathy for the situation he found himself under.

As you may recall, no fan sites of any sort received camp access. We did ONLY on August 9 after the deal was solidified on August 8, up to which point we thought it would fall through. The decision to block fan sites was made long before. I think I even mentioned it on ES that we were denied access to camp some weeks prior but I don't know the time frame of that off the top of my head.

joe's had received camp access for this site before this year, or at least gotten tons of player interviews/media access etc in years prior. After you got bought his access was revoked instantly though.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by extremeskins

Why don't you check our ExtremeSkins TC reports (by myself specifically) between August 1st and 6th. Go see what side of the fence I was on.

um, i think you totally missed matty's point.

[Tarhog]

Good luck with the great board guys. We're all Redskins fans. I hope if/when future 'articles' like this spring up, you'll try and give your fellow fans a little benefit of the doubt.

You really can't believe everything you read.

[ExtremeArt]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Are you saying there was no correlation between everyone being denied access to camp and the deal that was in the works between ES and the Redskins?

I find that very hard to believe.

We sent Tony to D.C., paid for his trip and everything, and he watched camp as a fan. There was no fan site access for us, or anyone else. The deal we had looked as if it would not come about. They'd lined up mods from KFFL and had another site ready to go starting from scratch. They were not waiting on us. They were waiting on their hardware to come in so they could go live with their own board.

In the end we were able to come to an agreement and very late things changed. The team had decided after mini-camp that no more ian sites save the one they provided would have access. That included us.