When is Enough ,Enough?

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

And still it's a bunch of hot air about Russia. Vladimir Putin, head of KGB, has been working to influence US elections since Walter Mondale sucked up to the Russians.
I give a rat's ass if Trump talked or didn't talk to them. If Putin thought Trump was going to win, he would have focused more efforts to help HRC. That's just what enemy countries do.

The dems and libs are going to have a meltdown when the republicans win bigly this election, and Trump appoints a 3rd constitutional justice making the balance 6 to 3.

It would be funny if it weren't depressing to here them scream russia russia russia like little girls.

I really can't believe you're still stuck on Putin's trying to influence the election. That's old news now. Everybody not named Trump or House Republicans agree he did.

Bear with me for a moment because I know this is nothing more than a mere concept to us non-Mueller investigators. But what if the real concern isn't Putin doing whatever he can to get Trump elected, but Trump's loans from Deutsche Bank coming from illegal money laundering out of Russia? What if Trump owed Russian oligarchs connected to Putin money? You don't think owing debt to any Putin-connected Russian would be a serious conflict of interest as POTUS?

Seriously, ignore my theory if you must as I have nothing to back it up, but it's just starting to sound like you're tired of hearing Russia mentioned so you couldn't care less what they do, or who they did it with, or if there's any actual legit crimes there. Have you started thinking up an excuse for if/when Mueller completes the investigation and makes his recommendation to Congress? If you've ever watched any of those reality crime shows, it's a classic technique. Start at the bottom and keep flipping guys until you reach the guy at the top. Cohen is next. And as Trump's fixer, there really aren't that many guys left to flip.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

I really can't believe you're still stuck on Putin's trying to influence the election. That's old news now. Everybody not named Trump or House Republicans agree he did.

Bear with me for a moment because I know this is nothing more than a mere concept to us non-Mueller investigators. But what if the real concern isn't Putin doing whatever he can to get Trump elected, but Trump's loans from Deutsche Bank coming from illegal money laundering out of Russia? What if Trump owed Russian oligarchs connected to Putin money? You don't think owing debt to any Putin-connected Russian would be a serious conflict of interest as POTUS?

Seriously, ignore my theory if you must as I have nothing to back it up, but it's just starting to sound like you're tired of hearing Russia mentioned so you couldn't care less what they do, or who they did it with, or if there's any actual legit crimes there. Have you started thinking up an excuse for if/when Mueller completes the investigation and makes his recommendation to Congress? If you've ever watched any of those reality crime shows, it's a classic technique. Start at the bottom and keep flipping guys until you reach the guy at the top. Cohen is next. And as Trump's fixer, there really aren't that many guys left to flip.

First, i do think russia tried to influence our election. I think they have been trying to influence our elections for as long as i can remember.

The DB angle is very plausible unfortunately, again the Soviets then, and russians now, certainly are not restrained from trying to blackmail or manipulate any one they can.

I still do think the overall effect is overblown by the hate trump media. So i will wait and withhold judgement until all the cards are laid out.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by mooby

I really can't believe you're still stuck on Putin's trying to influence the election. That's old news now. Everybody not named Trump or House Republicans agree he did.

Bear with me for a moment because I know this is nothing more than a mere concept to us non-Mueller investigators. But what if the real concern isn't Putin doing whatever he can to get Trump elected, but Trump's loans from Deutsche Bank coming from illegal money laundering out of Russia? What if Trump owed Russian oligarchs connected to Putin money? You don't think owing debt to any Putin-connected Russian would be a serious conflict of interest as POTUS?

Seriously, ignore my theory if you must as I have nothing to back it up, but it's just starting to sound like you're tired of hearing Russia mentioned so you couldn't care less what they do, or who they did it with, or if there's any actual legit crimes there. Have you started thinking up an excuse for if/when Mueller completes the investigation and makes his recommendation to Congress? If you've ever watched any of those reality crime shows, it's a classic technique. Start at the bottom and keep flipping guys until you reach the guy at the top. Cohen is next. And as Trump's fixer, there really aren't that many guys left to flip.

Mooby,

I wanted to circle back to this. I think your theory has a lot of plausibility, and possible validity. Where my problem is, is when media conflates the Russian collusion story, which in my opinion is bogus, with what very well may be serious issues that took place from the Russian side.

I don't for a minute think that the Trump campaign went out and actively sought Russian operatives to act against HRC's campaign which is what the House report said they didn't find evidence of.

I do think Russia actively sought to act against HRC's campaign at a higher intensity then past elections, which is what the Senate said happened.

There is a significant difference between those two statements. So that's what I mean by the russia russia russia whinings of the msm. They seek to conflate Russian interference (which did happen) first to the level of Russian collusion(which I don't think happened) then to level of the indictments brought by Muellers team (on banking charges not Russian based collusion) all with the intent of de-legitimizing Trump's election win and the policies he ran on.

I believe your theory is actually what's happening in Mueller's investigation. AND if that all turns out to be a sordid financial story of either blackmail or fraud, then the Russian story will take an ugly turn for Trump.

I don't know if I am making the distinctions clear enough, but this is a far more interesting discussion to have then trump cultists want to fuck america.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Mooby,

I wanted to circle back to this. I think your theory has a lot of plausibility, and possible validity. Where my problem is, is when media conflates the Russian collusion story, which in my opinion is bogus, with what very well may be serious issues that took place from the Russian side.

I don't for a minute think that the Trump campaign went out and actively sought Russian operatives to act against HRC's campaign which is what the House report said they didn't find evidence of.

I do think Russia actively sought to act against HRC's campaign at a higher intensity then past elections, which is what the Senate said happened.

There is a significant difference between those two statements. So that's what I mean by the russia russia russia whinings of the msm. They seek to conflate Russian interference (which did happen) first to the level of Russian collusion(which I don't think happened) then to level of the indictments brought by Muellers team (on banking charges not Russian based collusion) all with the intent of de-legitimizing Trump's election win and the policies he ran on.

I believe your theory is actually what's happening in Mueller's investigation. AND if that all turns out to be a sordid financial story of either blackmail or fraud, then the Russian story will take an ugly turn for Trump.

I don't know if I am making the distinctions clear enough, but this is a far more interesting discussion to have then trump cultists want to fuck america.

Thanks for the post Cred. I'll make this short as I have another long day tomorrow, but I believe the "collusion" isn't as strong as some people would have us believe. Did they have the meeting? Sure. Did anything come out of the meeting? No idea. Russia is going to interfere, via hacking/etc. with or without anyone's approval. Maybe they offered Trump dirt, and he said he was interested? Maybe they said they'll release DNC emails, and Trump said sure but I don't wanna be anywhere near that when you do. Idk, but the idea they were working in tandem doesn't seem likely. Trump probably said do whatever you want, and if we get elected I'll pay it back however I can.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

Thanks for the post Cred. I'll make this short as I have another long day tomorrow, but I believe the "collusion" isn't as strong as some people would have us believe. Did they have the meeting? Sure. Did anything come out of the meeting? No idea. Russia is going to interfere, via hacking/etc. with or without anyone's approval. Maybe they offered Trump dirt, and he said he was interested? Maybe they said they'll release DNC emails, and Trump said sure but I don't wanna be anywhere near that when you do. Idk, but the idea they were working in tandem doesn't seem likely. Trump probably said do whatever you want, and if we get elected I'll pay it back however I can.

I will say we agree to disagree. To many of his minions are being nailed .I will agree that you will not nail him (trump himself) he doesn't work that way he will throw others under the bus but I do think that all the others including donnie Jr all guilty as sin and have been told to take one for the team and trump will pardon them later.That is a dangerous precedent. I find it amazing that a "hostile " goverment has elected a president that the majority of Americans did not want and people still think it's ok.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by Giantone

I will say we agree to disagree. To many of his minions are being nailed .I will agree that you will not nail him (trump himself) he doesn't work that way he will throw others under the bus but I do think that all the others including donnie Jr all guilty as sin and have been told to take one for the team and trump will pardon them later.That is a dangerous precedent. I find it amazing that a "hostile " goverment has elected a president that the majority of Americans did not want and people still think it's ok.

We might disagree on Russia working hand in hand with Trump (I do believe Russia tried to run interference wherever possible with or without his blessing) but I don't find it far-fetched to believe that when most major banks wanted nothing to do with Trump based on his history of trying to screw others out of their end of a deal, he was able to find a willing player in Deutsche Bank/Russia. I don't think there's any way Trump got himself to where he is today by playing by the book. And that's why I have faith in the Mueller investigation.

Even this latest revelation about making back channels via his personal cell phone as US President (which is ludicrous in its' own right) is par for the course for him. I think he's focused on maximizing his opportunities while in office, because he knows the investigation is going to find dirt (if they haven't found dirt from his business days already). And when that day comes his excuse is already pre-made. Deep-state actors like Mueller and co. have had it out for him from the beginning.

[Giantone]

Originally Posted by mooby

We might disagree on Russia working hand in hand with Trump (I do believe Russia tried to run interference wherever possible with or without his blessing) but I don't find it far-fetched to believe that when most major banks wanted nothing to do with Trump based on his history of trying to screw others out of their end of a deal, he was able to find a willing player in Deutsche Bank/Russia. I don't think there's any way Trump got himself to where he is today by playing by the book. And that's why I have faith in the Mueller investigation.

Even this latest revelation about making back channels via his personal cell phone as US President (which is ludicrous in its' own right) is par for the course for him. I think he's focused on maximizing his opportunities while in office, because he knows the investigation is going to find dirt (if they haven't found dirt from his business days already). And when that day comes his excuse is already pre-made. Deep-state actors like Mueller and co. have had it out for him from the beginning.

Why aren't people screaming for his head for using an "unsecured cell phone" like they did for Hilary and her email server?

[Giantone]

Well here is a surprise ,I never would have guessed this would happen.


https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/ivan...041020687.html


World
Ivanka Trump's Chinese-Made Products Conveniently Spared From Dad's Tariffs
Mary Papenfuss 16 hours ago
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Donald Trump’s tariffs on Chinese goods won’t touch Ivanka Trump’s foreign-made products for her fashion line.

While Trump rails at Harley-Davidson motorcycles for moving some production to Europe to dodge EU tariffs, the first daughter and senior White House adviser has never manufactured a single product for her Ivanka Trump brand on American soil.

Trump enacted tariffs Friday morning on $34 billion worth of Chinese goods, affecting hundreds of products from boats to medical devices and auto parts. Products spared include those manufactured by his daughter.

That means Chengdu Kameido Shoes in Sichuan province can continue to supply shoes for the Ivanka Trump brand as it has in the past. It’s currently bidding for a new contract to manufacture 140,000 pairs of shoes for Trump’s company, a spokesman told The South China Morning Post.