Marty Hurney Thread

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

This is an interesting video from last year's combine with Kyle Smith. So what happened between Kyle and Ron? I don't believe Kyle was in Ron's horizon from the beginning and blew sunshine up his ass.

https://youtu.be/FaTfkG_OdnA

I'm starting to believe they had a philosophical difference on how to build the team. Guessing Kyle was the more pragmatic, slow and steady type, and Ron thinks we have an opportunity to win now and he wants to seize it. If that is the case, the marriage was doomed as soon as our "window" opened during the season last year.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by mooby

I'm starting to believe they had a philosophical difference on how to build the team. Guessing Kyle was the more pragmatic, slow and steady type, and Ron thinks we have an opportunity to win now and he wants to seize it. If that is the case, the marriage was doomed as soon as our "window" opened during the season last year.

Watch the video.

[mooby]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Watch the video.

I'm 10 minutes in, is there a specific part you'd like me to watch?

It sounds like he thought it was a collaborative effort with Ron, maybe it wasn't? Maybe Ron told him to fall in line? Idk. It doesn't rule out the scenario I laid out though, if they had philosophical differences in how to build the team it wouldn't be a surprise that Kyle is out.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by mooby

I'm 10 minutes in, is there a specific part you'd like me to watch?

It sounds like he thought it was a collaborative effort with Ron, maybe it wasn't? Maybe Ron told him to fall in line? Idk. It doesn't rule out the scenario I laid out though, if they had philosophical differences in how to build the team it wouldn't be a surprise that Kyle is out.

Sounded like they had a good working relationship, with Ron telling he’s doing a good job, basically blowing sunshine up his ass. So then what happened there if things were so good?

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Sounded like they had a good working relationship, with Ron telling he’s doing a good job, basically blowing sunshine up his ass. So then what happened there if things were so good?

Look at the history of THE DAN. By year 2 or 3, he ALWAYS meddles. ALWAYS. You think Riviera didn't call the Shanny Clan and others and get the real story and learn what a turd THE DAN is? Its always all hugs and kisses year one or two, and then THE DAN meddles. ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS that this has somehow magically changed. RR has to be sure he has someone he can trust, not Snyder yes men, so he has intel from someone he has known forever and can trust when the meddling begins. How does he know if THE DAN goes to some scout and says give PLAYER X a good scouting report and champion him to RR or you are fired? Ron's only protection against THE DAN is to bring his own guys in. There is some desire to do this anyway, but this propensity becomes a need with THE DAN. RR is not dumb and has no illusions that THE DAN will not revert to his long-term behavior trends once the honeymoon is over. Every human being does.

THE DAN tax, on franchise success, is never ending. We are tossing out a brilliant young GM in the making, and probably the bulk of his scouting staff, for two retreads. Cam Newton has been a failure, especially when it comes to character. He takes all the glory when things are good, and blames everyone else like a ten-year old when things are bad. Locker Room cancer. He was also never very accurate and lacked the humility to work to become a more accurate passer. So we now have the regime that whiffed on Newton picking our next QB. Smith isn't the only talented GM or scout in the league, but I would argue a great GM is more important than a great coach. A great coach can't win without talent the GM provides, but a good coach can win with a lot of talent. So we again have it backwards. Letting the coach buy the groceries, directly or indirectly, doesn't work in most cases. You can't have a GM that is the lackey of the coach. He has to be the equal of the coach, or the boss of the coach. Mayhew and Hurney are average at best in terms of their personnel track records. They are not horrific hires, but neither are they brilliant hires, and the best teams, especially those good year in and out, have brilliant GMs. We are letting a potentially brilliant GM go to bring in two mediocre GMs who are retreads and nothing more.

What you would expect is another great draft this year because Smith has largely run it and done the scouting, though he may be overruled by RR and Co., him to leave for somewhere else later in year or year after latest, and then draft prowess to drop appreciably after. I could be wrong, but that is what you would expect. Smith may be too young to be GM, but he should have at minimum been promoted to assistant GM and given huge pay raise to keep him here. We have no idea what is happening behind scenes, whether divergent philosophies, but a huge portion of it has to be setting up a rampart against meddling by THE DAN.

[SFREDSKIN]

Originally Posted by Scalper

Look at the history of THE DAN. By year 2 or 3, he ALWAYS meddles. ALWAYS. You think Riviera didn't call the Shanny Clan and others and get the real story and learn what a turd THE DAN is? Its always all hugs and kisses year one or two, and then THE DAN meddles. ALWAYS. Don't believe the BS that this has somehow magically changed. RR has to be sure he has someone he can trust, not Snyder yes men, so he has intel from someone he has known forever and can trust when the meddling begins. How does he know if THE DAN goes to some scout and says give PLAYER X a good scouting report and champion him to RR or you are fired? Ron's only protection against THE DAN is to bring his own guys in. There is some desire to do this anyway, but this propensity becomes a need with THE DAN. RR is not dumb and has no illusions that THE DAN will not revert to his long-term behavior trends once the honeymoon is over. Every human being does.

THE DAN tax, on franchise success, is never ending. We are tossing out a brilliant young GM in the making, and probably the bulk of his scouting staff, for two retreads. Cam Newton has been a failure, especially when it comes to character. He takes all the glory when things are good, and blames everyone else like a ten-year old when things are bad. Locker Room cancer. He was also never very accurate and lacked the humility to work to become a more accurate passer. So we now have the regime that whiffed on Newton picking our next QB. Smith isn't the only talented GM or scout in the league, but I would argue a great GM is more important than a great coach. A great coach can't win without talent the GM provides, but a good coach can win with a lot of talent. So we again have it backwards. Letting the coach buy the groceries, directly or indirectly, doesn't work in most cases. You can't have a GM that is the lackey of the coach. He has to be the equal of the coach, or the boss of the coach. Mayhew and Hurney are average at best in terms of their personnel track records. They are not horrific hires, but neither are they brilliant hires, and the best teams, especially those good year in and out, have brilliant GMs. We are letting a potentially brilliant GM go to bring in two mediocre GMs who are retreads and nothing more.

What you would expect is another great draft this year because Smith has largely run it and done the scouting, though he may be overruled by RR and Co., him to leave for somewhere else later in year or year after latest, and then draft prowess to drop appreciably after. I could be wrong, but that is what you would expect. Smith may be too young to be GM, but he should have at minimum been promoted to assistant GM and given huge pay raise to keep him here. We have no idea what is happening behind scenes, whether divergent philosophies, but a huge portion of it has to be setting up a rampart against meddling by THE DAN.

Actually Danny knew what he had in Smith and liked him, I think Ron forced his hand on this one.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by SFREDSKIN

Actually Danny knew what he had in Smith and liked him, I think Ron forced his hand on this one.

That's the whole point.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by mooby

I'm starting to believe they had a philosophical difference on how to build the team. Guessing Kyle was the more pragmatic, slow and steady type, and Ron thinks we have an opportunity to win now and he wants to seize it. If that is the case, the marriage was doomed as soon as our "window" opened during the season last year.

Coaches are generally always going to take the shorter view, especially versus a stable FO. That is why the FO should be above the coach, not vice versa, in most but not all cases. Smith almost certainly wants to keep up the program that is bringing in talent, three more years of drafting this well, we'd be styling, but we won't see the course through probably. The smart course is to identify a QB you like out of 1st round (assuming top 4 go off board early) and draft him and perhaps one other. I suspect we'll sign a big FA or trade for one.

[Number44]

Originally Posted by Scalper

Coaches are generally always going to take the shorter view, especially versus a stable FO. That is why the FO should be above the coach, not vice versa, in most but not all cases. Smith almost certainly wants to keep up the program that is bringing in talent, three more years of drafting this well, we'd be styling, but we won't see the course through probably. The smart course is to identify a QB you like out of 1st round (assuming top 4 go off board early) and draft him and perhaps one other. I suspect we'll sign a big FA or trade for one.

By "smart" you apparently mean "in accordance with my opinion." LOL

Your "smart" way has worked real well over the past 20 years, hasn't it? LOL

Sorry, but continuing with the guaranteed mediocrity is not "smart." Recognizing the reality of the window created by the rookie contracts of an excellent group of young players and striking before they become too expensive to keep them all is, indeed, "smart." RR's methodology looks much better to me than yours - and it is not a close call.

[Scalper]

Originally Posted by Number44

By "smart" you apparently mean "in accordance with my opinion." LOL

Your "smart" way has worked real well over the past 20 years, hasn't it? LOL

Sorry, but continuing with the guaranteed mediocrity is not "smart." Recognizing the reality of the window created by the rookie contracts of an excellent group of young players and striking before they become too expensive to keep them all is, indeed, "smart." RR's methodology looks much better to me than yours - and it is not a close call.

No, it is not. We have a good DL and that is about it. We are nowhere near being a contender. And this miscalculation that we are "close" is in fact the mistake of the last decade or more, the inability to stay the long course because we never have a true GM taking the long view (or the owner plays GM), and are always deluded into thinking we are 1-2 players away. A GM that is the lackey of the coach doesn't solve this problem.

You won't find me loving the past regime, but trading for a retread QB is the mistake of old. McNabb, Smith, etc. It might win us a few more games, but won't get us anywhere near the mountaintop.

What has guaranteed mediocrity is owner meddling and not sticking to a long term plan of draft and develop. We won't have nearly as much talent coming in with two retread GMs and Smith on the way out.