Fresh Start Political Thread

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Good informative article, thank you Chico.

Lots of moving parts and competing interests.

1. Sanctions werent stopping the pipeline which is almost done completion anyway

2. Germany really wanted it and I do think we had to make ally amends

3. Sucks for Ukraine as apparently they will be circumvented and wont get a transit fee

4. Makes Germany and western Europe even more energy dependent on Russia

5. Cheap natural gas from Russia means no incentives to develop green energy and energy alternatives

My take away, it seemed it was going to happen no matter what so we chose to work with an ally in Germany.

This seems to be a though out diplomatic foreign relation decision.

Adults in charge.

There still is no defending the Keystone pipeline decision. That was straight on virtue signaling that actually hurt the environment (That dirty-crude will now primarily be exported and refined to dirtier refineries in China and to a lesser extent transported in more polluting trains (Much more damaging than pipelines) to the US).

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by nonniey

There still is no defending the Keystone pipeline decision. That was straight on virtue signaling that actually hurt the environment (That dirty-crude will now primarily be exported and refined to dirtier refineries in China and to a lesser extent transported in more polluting trains (Much more damaging than pipelines) to the US).

Idk .. importing sand oil from Canada? Do we have a need for more oil and oil sources? Seems like the only people who would benefit are the Oil Companies. If oil was some scarce needed commodity, itd be a no brainer.

We are already extracting oil out of all types of things .. and it does cause greater environmental waste. How does it help us? it creates some temporary jobs .. at the cost of the environment and having pipelines running through the countryside and potential for future leaks and issues.

End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not. I just dont see any pros to it outside of temporary job creation .. at the expense of the environment. Ill side with environment over the oil industry all day.

----

edit - are you saying the Oil Companies would have limited or reduced their crude oil by whatever amount of this sand oil came through the pipeline? That would certainly be something to consider but seems wishful thinking. Do you have an article for that?

Im just guessing but id guess they keep crude going as strong as they could (market allowing) then plus this sand oil. Not that sand oil would reduce crude production. Itd be your normal crude plus sand oil.

(seems most environment damage would happen in Canada where it would be mined on sight .. unless a pipe leaked in Montana or something)

[nonniey]

Originally Posted by SunnySide

Idk .. importing sand oil from Canada? Do we have a need for more oil and oil sources? Seems like the only people who would benefit are the Oil Companies. If oil was some scarce needed commodity, itd be a no brainer.

We are already extracting oil out of all types of things .. and it does cause greater environmental waste. How does it help us? it creates some temporary jobs .. at the cost of the environment and having pipelines running through the countryside and potential for future leaks and issues.

End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not. I just dont see any pros to it outside of temporary job creation .. at the expense of the environment. Ill side with environment over the oil industry all day.

----

edit - are you saying the Oil Companies would have limited or reduced their crude oil by whatever amount of this sand oil came through the pipeline? That would certainly be something to consider but seems wishful thinking. Do you have an article for that?

Im just guessing but id guess they keep crude going as strong as they could (market allowing) then plus this sand oil. Not that sand oil would reduce crude production. Itd be your normal crude plus sand oil.

(seems most environment damage would happen in Canada where it would be mined on sight .. unless a pipe leaked in Montana or something)

You provided your own answer - "End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not."

US refining is the cleanest on on Earth, but now most of this oil is going to be refined outside the US (Mostly in China). The amount that is refined inside the US will be transported on trains which are more polluting than pipelines. So at the end of day The US makes less money and has fewer jobs and more pollution is produced than would have been if the pipeline had been built. What else would you call that but virtue signaling?

[SunnySide]

Originally Posted by nonniey

You provided your own answer - "End of the day .. that sand oil deposit is going to mined whether Keystone goes through or not."

US refining is the cleanest on on Earth, but now most of this oil is going to be refined outside the US (Mostly in China). The amount that is refined inside the US will be transported on trains which are more polluting than pipelines. So at the end of day The US makes less money and has fewer jobs and more pollution is produced than would have been if the pipeline had been built. What else would you call that but virtue signaling?

Youre right ... more sand oil will de shipped to China and id imagine our refineries are much cleaner than China.

[Giantone]

This is a really good question.....................


https://news.yahoo.com/gop-defend-no...233600160.html

NBC News
If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for?


NBC News
If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for?
Jonathan Allen
Tue, July 27, 2021, 7:36 PM
In this article:

WASHINGTON — Aquilino Gonell, a sergeant with the U.S. Capitol Police force, testified Tuesday that he put his duty to the Constitution ahead of the interests of his wife and son when he fought rioters at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

"This is how I'm going to die," he recalled thinking as his body was crushed in a violent scrum, "defending this entrance."

Of course, Gonell and other law enforcement officers were defending symbols of the republic that day — the Capitol, the Constitution and the sanctity of the ballot. But they were also safeguarding the physical security of the members of Congress, direct participants in republican governance, as well as then-Vice President Mike Pence.

It has been heartbreaking for Gonell and many of his colleagues on the Capitol and D.C. Metro police forces to watch Republican leaders in Congress pretend they weren't under threat.

"It was devastating and demoralizing for people, whatever the party is, to call this attack and continue to minimize it like nothing happened. It was an attempted coup that was happening in the Capitol that day," Gonell said in emotional testimony given under questioning by Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who also fought back tears.

"We were fighting for our lives — to give you guys a chance to go home to your family, to escape. And now the same people we helped, the same people who — we gave them borrowed time to get to safety — now they're attacking us. They're attacking our characters," he continued. "It's a disgrace."

For months, Republican lawmakers have attacked the police officers who defended their lives so they can defend a former president who put them at risk, and they continue to do so.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Giantone

This is a really good question.....................


https://news.yahoo.com/gop-defend-no...233600160.html

NBC News
If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for?


NBC News
If GOP won't defend the Capitol, the Constitution or themselves, what do they stand for?
Jonathan Allen
Tue, July 27, 2021, 7:36 PM
In this article:

WASHINGTON — Aquilino Gonell, a sergeant with the U.S. Capitol Police force, testified Tuesday that he put his duty to the Constitution ahead of the interests of his wife and son when he fought rioters at the U.S. Capitol on Jan. 6.

"This is how I'm going to die," he recalled thinking as his body was crushed in a violent scrum, "defending this entrance."

Of course, Gonell and other law enforcement officers were defending symbols of the republic that day — the Capitol, the Constitution and the sanctity of the ballot. But they were also safeguarding the physical security of the members of Congress, direct participants in republican governance, as well as then-Vice President Mike Pence.

It has been heartbreaking for Gonell and many of his colleagues on the Capitol and D.C. Metro police forces to watch Republican leaders in Congress pretend they weren't under threat.

"It was devastating and demoralizing for people, whatever the party is, to call this attack and continue to minimize it like nothing happened. It was an attempted coup that was happening in the Capitol that day," Gonell said in emotional testimony given under questioning by Rep. Adam Kinzinger, R-Ill., who also fought back tears.

"We were fighting for our lives — to give you guys a chance to go home to your family, to escape. And now the same people we helped, the same people who — we gave them borrowed time to get to safety — now they're attacking us. They're attacking our characters," he continued. "It's a disgrace."

For months, Republican lawmakers have attacked the police officers who defended their lives so they can defend a former president who put them at risk, and they continue to do so.

Didn't take much for the right to flip on law enforcement. Truly sad and pathetic.