Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

[MTK]

It wasn't the same exact circumstances they played under last year though.

Later on in the year when Ramsey started, I think it's safe to say by then Gibbs and co. had made some necessary adjustments to the offense, and with Ramsey they scaled things back and went ultra conservative.

Plus I don't care what Brunell says, he obviously was not 100% healthy. He doesn't want to admit it because he doesn't want to come off as a guy who's making excuses, but it's obvious something was wrong with him physically because his arm strength simply wasn't there at all, and he clearly has much more zip this year. How many times have we seen him one hop a ball to a WR this year? None that I can remember as opposed to last year when he was good for a few a game.

Enough about last year though. Brunell has helped get us to where we are right now, 7-6 and in a good position to control our own destiny if we can win out.

[SmootSmack]

Because Ramsey passed for more yards in the Bears game doesn't necessarily make him a better quarterback. We're not playing the EA Quarterback Challenge out there. If it was all about how far you can launch the football then, well then we'd be a perennial playoff team and firmly entrenched in the Jeff George era. There are plenty more intangibles involved then yards passing or how strong your arm is.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Because Ramsey passed for more yards in the Bears game doesn't necessarily make him a better quarterback. We're not playing the EA Quarterback Challenge out there. If it was all about how far you can launch the football then, well then we'd be a perennial playoff team and firmly entrenched in the Jeff George era. There are plenty more intangibles involved then yards passing or how strong your arm is.

Yea, like is the guy catching the ball on our team.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Because Ramsey passed for more yards in the Bears game doesn't necessarily make him a better quarterback. We're not playing the EA Quarterback Challenge out there. If it was all about how far you can launch the football then, well then we'd be a perennial playoff team and firmly entrenched in the Jeff George era. There are plenty more intangibles involved then yards passing or how strong your arm is.

That wasen't really the point, the point is Ramsey wasen't given a serious opportunity to prove he couldn't do it, and others demand proof that he could, what else can you really go off to prove that point except play between the 2 QB's in the same game.

Bottom line with our talent we should be sitting no less than 10-3 right now, we absolutly blew 3 games, we are 7-6 that is unacceptable with the talent on this team, good QB's win close games, Brunell does not, 13 games into the season and we need to rely on others to get into the playoffs, and you know what? We will probably get that help, but I also believe we will blow another game we should have won to seal our fate.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

That wasen't really the point, the point is Ramsey wasen't given a serious opportunity to prove he couldn't do it, and others demand proof that he could, what else can you really go off to prove that point except play between the 2 QB's in the same game.

I know. You and your Ramsey Crips will probably eternally battle me any my Brunell Bloods over whether Ramsey's progress (or perhaps lack thereof) from the end of last season to the beginning of this season should be a factor. There are those of us that maintain that the offseason (minicamp, training camp, even preseason) counts and if you can't show that you're the clear cut better option during that time then it has to be addressed. And there are those that maintain that it's not fair to judge Ramsey unless he's given an extended number of games during the regular season when it actually counts. And didn't Ramsey have two turnovers in that first quarter against the Bears, compared to none the next three for Brunell?

Anyhow, the world keeps on spinning.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I know. You and your Ramsey Crips will probably eternally battle me any my Brunell Bloods over whether Ramsey's progress (or perhaps lack thereof) from the end of last season to the beginning of this season should be a factor. There are those of us that maintain that the offseason (minicamp, training camp, even preseason) counts and if you can't show that you're the clear cut better option during that time then it has to be addressed. And there are those that maintain that it's not fair to judge Ramsey unless he's given an extended number of games during the regular season when it actually counts. And didn't Ramsey have two turnovers in that first quarter against the Bears, compared to none the next three for Brunell?

Anyhow, the world keeps on spinning.

Yes, and apparently according to Ramsey the reciever made the wrong read, Gibbs used the TO argument to replace Ramsey and one of the reasons Ramsey wanted out, we didn't hear Gibbs come out and back up Ramsey on that INT like he tried to do for Brunell last week, and I think we all can agree that the fumble was a cheap shot and should have been called.

The TO argument doesn't work for me when comparing the 2 QB's, Brunell turns the ball over as much or more than Ramsey, and his TO have been more devastating to the outcome of games, he's allowed the defense to score which Ramsey has not, Brunell is supposed to be a well seasoned veteran and should not be turning the ball over like he does, that was supposed to be a big reason why Gibbs likes veterans, well if he's going to turn it over like a youngster than what's the point, give the kid a try to see if he progresses, I just don't understand the stance that Ramsey would not have progressed and gotten better with more playing time? Matty stated that it really wasen't fair to compare what Ramsey did last season comparitivly because Gibbs had gotten things on track by the time Ramsey stepped in, are we sure it wasen't Ramsey who put things on track? Thats a big coincidence, that same argument can be used this season for Ramsey, is it fair to say that Ramsey would have become even better than Brunell this season as the offensive players around him progressed as well?

Don't get me wrong I don't want to see Ramsey replace Brunell at this point in the season, this is Brunells baby let him finish it, I just think at the end of this season there will be no playoffs, and a lot of unanswered questions at QB, one of which will be what to do with an ageing QB? Do we play Campbell on a team that by year 3 is ready to take the next step? Do we go back to Brunell another year older who has proven nothing in 2 seasons? Or do we go with Ramsey who probably could care less what's promised him in the offseason, and can't get out of town fast enough?

I think we have a big problem against the Boy's come sunday.

[SmootSmack]

I'd forgotten about that cheap shot. You're right about that one. I didn't realize it was Ramsey that said the receiver ran the wrong route. Don't how I feel about him calling out a teammate like that. According to most people, Cooley made the wrong read on the second INT against the Cardinals but I don't recall Brunell calling him out in public on that.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'd forgotten about that cheap shot. You're right about that one. I didn't realize it was Ramsey that said the receiver ran the wrong route. Don't how I feel about him calling out a teammate like that. According to most people, Cooley made the wrong read on the second INT against the Cardinals but I don't recall Brunell calling him out in public on that.

Actually my bad as well, it was one of the players who came out and said the WR ran the wrong route, in fact it may have been Cooley who said it, I believe it was Patten who ran the wrong way but not sure, but that was the reason Ramsey was apparently irate, because Gibbs hung him out to dry and used it as an excuse to put in Brunell, that's kind of why I posted in another thread that ramsey had to be ready to explode when he heard Gibbs defending Brunell's INT because a reciever made the wrong read.

If all that is true, I know I would be fumming at the favortism shown for Brunell, compared to how unfairly I was treated under the same circumstances, but that's just me.

Ramsey from what I can remember never called out anyone in public to his credit, I believe it was his teammates who tried to stick up for him and clarify what happened on that INT, most of what any of us heard was second hand pertaining to that situation.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by offiss

That wasen't really the point, the point is Ramsey wasen't given a serious opportunity to prove he couldn't do it, and others demand proof that he could, what else can you really go off to prove that point except play between the 2 QB's in the same game.

Nine games last season with 10 TDs to 11 INTs isn't exactly screaming "I can get the job done."

I like Ramsey. The kid's got heart, tough as nails, and he's probably going to be a solid #2 (ha...I said "solid #2") QB somewhere in this league. The fact of the matter is he's had 4 seasons, 2 coaches, 2 systems and more than enough opportunities to show he's not cut out to lead the team.

Clearly Gibbs isn't comfortable with Ramsey at #1 - do people honestly think that this has nothing to do with Gibbs' coaching ability and knowledge of the situation? Or do you really believe Gibbs is just unfair, vindictive and playing favorites with his good boy Brunell and it's all a conspiracy?

Come on folks, grow up.