Should Brunell be replaced? (merged)

[BigSKINBauer]

I'll try to cut back on the f-bombs but you put in these nice **** things

[offiss]

Originally Posted by skinsguy

It wasn't the same circumstances, Offiss. In what ways was it the same circumstance to you? What does the passing yards have to do with anything? You see, this is what I am trying to make you understand. You're going on what ifs and maybes, I am looking at this, strictly, from facts I've seen on the playing field. What if Heath Shuler stayed in another year? What if Joe Theismann had never broken his leg? What ifs don't mean anything to me Offiss. That is why when I focus on this Brunell/Ramsey debate, I look at our current situation as it stands right now, not what it COULD or COULD NOT be. That present situation has us in the playoff hunt and currently with a 7-6 record. Could we have a better record? Maybe or maybe not. Then again, it doesn't matter what we COULD or COULD NOT have, it's what we have right now, and 7-6 gives us a chance. 10-6 would get us in and if it didn't, 10-6 is a huge turn around from 6-10, so that means that Joe Gibbs and company is apparently doing something right.




Again, that was a different circumstance Offiss. Number one, that was last year. In this day and age of the NFL, teams can stink one year, and be Super Bowl champions the next (i.e. Rams, Bucs, Ravens, etc....) That Giants team last year didn't have the defense like it has this year. Thirdly, Eli Manning was a rookie last year. This year he came in having a year under his belt, and nobody saw him improving as vastly as he has this season. Lastly, in that first meeting with the Giants, Ramsey came in a threw at least three INTs, so I would say he was also guilty in the loss with the Giants - along with the REST OF THE TEAM. Again, you fail to see the fact that football is a team sport. Although the quarterback is hailed as the "driver" of the offense, he is just one player. It takes all the talent around him to make it work. We won in the past under Gibbs with less talented quarterbacks, because the team around the qb was built up to the best standard. That is why I have said, this team still lacks the ingredients to push it over the edge and become a great team. It's more than the quarterback position. Only amateurs blame wins and losses on the quarterback and coach alone, because it's easy to simply blame them.

OK, for the last time, I really don't know how else to help you comprehend this because it seems to me your really not paying attention to what has been written. Now, how do you figure that 2 different QB's playing in the same offense, in the same season is different circumstances as far as a comparison between the 2??????? How do you figure that the same 2 QB's in the same game, [bears] with the same personel, is different circumstances????

Oh and by the way Ramsey faced the tougher defenses last season!

That's funny how many SB's did Jay Schroeder win? Kind of ironic we won a SB after Gibbs yanked him. SAME CIRCUMSTANCES, same season, tell us who's fault was it that Gibbs had to make that change and why? I will tell you, Scroeders he wasen't getting the job done so he got the hook, the team was getting the job done but Jay wasen't, Did you know that Rypien was getting his walking papers if he didn't win the SB in 91' it was do or die, apparently the coach felt the team had been good enough to win but Rypiens inconsistancy was holding us back. There is a reason the QB is the highest drafted player every year as well as the highest paid player, he is the difference maker, and if he ain't? Get rid of him, and so far Brunell has not been a difference maker, we blew 3 games we had no buisness losing, he couldn't get 1 lowsey first down and seal those victories late in the game.

Yes only an amateur would believe that a QB and coach are not the 2 most important pieces to a football team, especially one who is acting GM, It's the QB's job to make plays, if your team is so good ala the Ravens a few years ago that you don't need a great QB then fine, don't give up the farm for 2 QB's in Brunell and Campbell, spend that money on players and draft picks to build a team that is not reliant on it's QB to win games for them.

I am curios what pieces to the puzzle do you think we need? Stick with the offensive side of the ball the defense has more than held it's own.

As far as I am concerned we have had the pieces, if you believe as many here do that our O-line coming into the season was maybe one of the best in the NFL, We have a bonified game breaker at WR in Moss, and I don't want to hear the Patten injury is hurting us Because we were losing before he was hurt, plenty of teams pass the ball very well and don't have any stars at WR, then you can add into the mix a 50 mil$ back in Portis who is already on his way to canton, so who's fault is it?


I guess I am to believe that the Raiders, Bucs, are more talented than us, or Simms and Collins are both better QB's than Brunell?



And try to follow along as I explain the giant scenerio for you, yes Brunell went out in the first game against the Giants, he dug us a big hole and did absolutly nothing on offense, Ramsey came in and was going up and down the field when the giants new we had to throw and if Gardner didn't drop an easy 5 yard TD Ramsey would have tied the game and wouldn't have had a 3rd INT, all the while not practicing with the first team in a new system, it was that game that everyone saw how our offense moved with ramsey in there and many started to change their minds about Brunell, ironic that Ramsey with some time under his belt blew out the Giants the second go round, Brunell was lucky to get a firstdown against the G-men.

You might want to decide who's fault it is that we sit a 7-6 because we have as much overall talent as anyone in the NFC.


No one saw Eli progressing so fast? What are you talking about? The Giants obviously did, and yes take a good look at what is called progrssion as a QB, add Big Ben to that mix as well, yes QB's who have an organazation committed to them can get better, it does happen, except if your name is Patrick Ramsey, then there is no way to progress, reagardless [as you have said SKINSGUY] whether or not he had a good team around him, yes Brunell fails and we have no talent around him, Ramsey doesn't recieve an opportunity to play with a better team this season and he's a failure and could never get better.

I will say it for the last time, Ramsey last season outplayed Brunell with the same team around him that Brunell had, and yes Ramsey had to face the eagles defense twice, and the steelers once, which were tougher than anything Brunell faced. That is why gibbs named him the starter for this season. Do you believe for one minute that if Brunell had outplayed Ramsey last season that Gibbs would have still given the job to Ramsey? Never happen. I now will sit back and allow this situation to unfold and wait till next season to see which QB does what, this argument is really fruitless so long as Ramsey is riding the pine. When ramsey finally gets a chance to play somewhere else [and rest assured he will] we will then know the answer to this controversy.

Lets just agree to disagree!

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by offiss

Lets just agree to disagree!

This about the smartest thing you said out of all that incoherent rambling.

[Hog1]

DAMN right!!!! Lets replace that worthless bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW Can this F...... absurdity be put to bed FINALLY ?????????????

[skinsfanthru&thru]

Originally Posted by Hog1

DAMN right!!!! Lets replace that worthless bastard!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOW Can this F...... absurdity be put to bed FINALLY ?????????????

yeah he's a bum, get rid of him already.

[STPainmaker]

You continue to baffle me. :confused:

[SmootSmack]

At this time last year, 9 out of 10 people you asked would say that Brunell's career (and a good one at that) was done.

Now he's just one TD pass away from the most he's ever thrown in a season (20). Great job MB!

[hail_2_da_skins]

This was by far the dumbest thread of all. I hope after the Cowgirl thrashing we can put to bed the Brunnel bashing. The guy is what he is. He controls the offense and gets the job done. It's not flashy but its winning football.

[skinsguy]

Just goes to show you, you can't judge a quarterback's greatness only on the strength of his arm. There is so much more to a quarterback who is not only good, but one that is a true leader. Mark Brunell is a good quarterback AND a true leader. That is why he is starting. He's not the best quarterback in the league, but he's getting the job done for us.

[scowan]

Who thinks we should replace Brunell now?!?!?

I kind of like those sub-200 yards days when he throws 4 TDs!!!!!!!!

[MTK]

I think we can put this debate to rest for now.

[onlydarksets]

His timing definitely improved as the night progressed. You can't argue he looked a bit rusty on the first couple of drives (the flea flicker and a couple of other passes were just flat out off). However, he was very efficient and that bomb to Moss was unbelievable. Talk about knowing your receivers! He knew Moss wasn't running flat out and put the ball right where it needed to be for Moss to make an outstanding grab. Also, waiting for a better lane for Cooley knowing Cooley would run it out was a very nice play.

[BrudLee]

It's funny. On the first drive, there was a play where Moss had the entire secondary beat, and Brunell double clutched it and threw short. My dad was still talking about it on the way home.

[saskin]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think we can put this debate to rest for now.

But he ONLY had 163 yards and ONLY 4 touchdowns! That's just not cutting it if you ask me!!! (sarcasm)

[backrow]

Originally Posted by Redskins88

But he ONLY had 163 yards and ONLY 4 touchdowns! That's just not cutting it if you ask me!!! (sarcasm)

And Brunnel never seems to impersonate P. Manning at the line, by calling fake signals, and jerking his head around, and making meaninless hand signals. (sarcasm)