Draft, FAs, etc

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jrocx69

WR and DE is correct, its a must, and DE has been a glaring need for almost a damn decade now.

DE and OL in draft and WR though FA

Jeez, Phillip Daniels is getting no love around the Warpath lately. He was a one-man wrecking crew for us coming down the stretch. I'd fill other needs before I'd worry about DE.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Jeez, Phillip Daniels is getting no love around the Warpath lately. He was a one-man wrecking crew for us coming down the stretch. I'd fill other needs before I'd worry about DE.

I definitely agree, 8 sacks down the stretch, countless tipped passes, and it's no coincidence his sacks came once Griffin and Salave'a were healthy and back in the lineup.

Still, while I don't think DE is a glaring need, it would be nice to get someone young in here to develop. Daniels and Wynn aren't exactly spring chickens. I did like what I saw from Evans at times, perhaps he could get worked into the mix more next year.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I definitely agree, 8 sacks down the stretch, countless tipped passes, and it's no coincidence his sacks came once Griffin and Salave'a were healthy and back in the lineup.

Still, while I don't think DE is a glaring need, it would be nice to get someone young in here to develop. Daniels and Wynn aren't exactly spring chickens. I did like what I saw from Evans at times, perhaps he could get worked into the mix more next year.

I like that idea. If you can find a Chris Canty type prospect in the 4th round or something, I'd be all for that. DE is a spot you always want to keep an eye on because having a great one is invaluable. Just like QB, you always want to keep an eye on QBs.

But having Daniels, Wynn, and assuming we resign D Evans, I think that allows us to focus on other problems with our higher picks. I'd love a free agent WR and our offensive line depth is downright scary. Plus, only Rabach and Dockery can be considered young. Jansen, Samuels and Thomas are in the midst of their primes and it won't be too much longer before we need younger legs. Developing some depth along the line would be good, and hopefully they'd eventually grow into a starting role.

[Beemnseven]

I don't think there's any doubt about it -- we desperately need to address defensive end. Renaldo Wynn simply isn't a pass rusher. While Philip Daniels finally found his light switch, saying that all is well at that position would be a huge mistake.

It's all going to depend on who the best player is when our pick comes up in the 2nd round. DE, reserve O-linemen, WR and nickel CB are the priorities in my mind.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

I don't think there's any doubt about it -- we desperately need to address defensive end. Renaldo Wynn simply isn't a pass rusher. While Philip Daniels finally found his light switch, saying that all is well at that position would be a huge mistake.

It's all going to depend on who the best player is when our pick comes up in the 2nd round. DE, reserve O-linemen, WR and nickel CB are the priorities in my mind.

Well, that is a lot of priorities you list there.

I agree, I think there are upgrades to be made over Reynaldo Wynn. But I think he's better than he gets credit for. Not much in the way of pass rushing, but he's huge at stopping the run. Plus the leadership and locker room presence should not be ignored.

It's just that we might not be able to address all 4 of the priorities you listed with quality players. I think we all agree that a WR is desperately needed. The ability to grab a big-time starting DE who can rush the passer will depend largely on our salary cap space. Remember, DEs like that are expensive.

Wynn's arm fracture could help decide his fate, who knows. But if we're faced with salary cap constraints, my priorities go in this order:

1) WR
2) O-Line depth
3) Nickel CB
4) DE

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well, that is a lot of priorities you list there.

I agree, I think there are upgrades to be made over Reynaldo Wynn. But I think he's better than he gets credit for. Not much in the way of pass rushing, but he's huge at stopping the run. Plus the leadership and locker room presence should not be ignored.

It's just that we might not be able to address all 4 of the priorities you listed with quality players. I think we all agree that a WR is desperately needed. The ability to grab a big-time starting DE who can rush the passer will depend largely on our salary cap space. Remember, DEs like that are expensive.

Wynn's arm fracture could help decide his fate, who knows. But if we're faced with salary cap constraints, my priorities go in this order:

1) WR
2) O-Line depth
3) Nickel CB
4) DE

I like your analysis. I'd still argue that O-line is more important than WR, but I understand that's highly debateable.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by mheisig

I like your analysis. I'd still argue that O-line is more important than WR, but I understand that's highly debateable.

Yeah I wouldn't say the line needs help before the WRs. Keep in mind we have 5 starters in place along the line who have played together and turned in a solid year this year when they were all healthy. Remember Portis's 5 straight 100-yard games? Credit goes to the O-line on that one, especially Randy Thomas. Once he got hurt, Portis struggled. And so did the entire offense.

I think we need depth along the line. But we are in desperate need of another threat down the field. He doesn't need to be a TO or Randy Moss. But he needs to be better than James Thrash or Taylor Jacobs.

Reggie Wayne would be ideal, because he runs TREMENDOUS routes and gets separation with quick cuts. But he's expensive. We at least need somebody to come in and take attention off Moss. Patten was taking attention away from Moss, and I think he'll have a better year next year. But we need a 3rd guy. If Wayne can't be obtained, David Givens is a good target, he's another good route-runner.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Yeah I wouldn't say the line needs help before the WRs. Keep in mind we have 5 starters in place along the line who have played together and turned in a solid year this year when they were all healthy. Remember Portis's 5 straight 100-yard games? Credit goes to the O-line on that one, especially Randy Thomas. Once he got hurt, Portis struggled. And so did the entire offense.

I think we need depth along the line. But we are in desperate need of another threat down the field. He doesn't need to be a TO or Randy Moss. But he needs to be better than James Thrash or Taylor Jacobs.

Reggie Wayne would be ideal, because he runs TREMENDOUS routes and gets separation with quick cuts. But he's expensive. We at least need somebody to come in and take attention off Moss. Patten was taking attention away from Moss, and I think he'll have a better year next year. But we need a 3rd guy. If Wayne can't be obtained, David Givens is a good target, he's another good route-runner.

Ok, you've convinced me I'll concede that we need depth along the O-line more than we need to replace players. I guess I'm happy with the O-line we have, I just want to seem them play like they did that 5-game stretch for the whole SEASON. We'd be unstoppable.

I definitely like Givens, his routes are impressive. Wayne seems like a long shot.

Anyone here for Eric Moulds? I know he had the incident with Mularkey this season but I don't think that was his fault at all, just Mularkey being an ass. I definitely do NOT want a "superstar" player with the superstar attitude. That's why I liked Patten or Givens or Wayne - humble, professional guys who produce.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Well, that is a lot of priorities you list there.

I agree, I think there are upgrades to be made over Reynaldo Wynn. But I think he's better than he gets credit for. Not much in the way of pass rushing, but he's huge at stopping the run. Plus the leadership and locker room presence should not be ignored.

It's just that we might not be able to address all 4 of the priorities you listed with quality players. I think we all agree that a WR is desperately needed. The ability to grab a big-time starting DE who can rush the passer will depend largely on our salary cap space. Remember, DEs like that are expensive.

Wynn's arm fracture could help decide his fate, who knows. But if we're faced with salary cap constraints, my priorities go in this order:

1) WR
2) O-Line depth
3) Nickel CB
4) DE

If Renaldo Wynn's cap number is manageable, I'd say sure, keep him around for rotations, but he is by no means a full time starter at DE. Being able to apply pressure to the quarterback without blitzing is an incredible advantage, and this organization has ignored that position for way too long. Also, the "leadership in the lockerroom" thing is overrated. I've heard that from players -- the head coach is responsible for leadership -- no one else.

Certainly, this team as far as it's draft capability cannot address every single area I mentioned. I think they represent the team's top needs, and the best player at our spot in the second round will probably fall at one of those positions. I imagine wide receiver will be addressed through free agency, if our cap experts are able to figure out a way to make it happen. I haven't given up on David Patten, either. For whatever reason, it just seemed that he and Brunell didn't get a chance to find that cohesive rhythym as quickly as it materialized with Santana Moss. While I'd love to see Reggie Wayne in burgundy and gold, he'e going to be top dollar, the most coveted free agent on the market by far. All of this tends to indicate that an upgrade at WR will be more subtle.

It's all going to depend on who's left by the time we pick in the 2nd round.

[jrocx69]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I definitely agree, 8 sacks down the stretch, countless tipped passes, and it's no coincidence his sacks came once Griffin and Salave'a were healthy and back in the lineup.

Still, while I don't think DE is a glaring need, it would be nice to get someone young in here to develop. Daniels and Wynn aren't exactly spring chickens. I did like what I saw from Evans at times, perhaps he could get worked into the mix more next year.

so he got 8 sacks down the stretch against some very so so lineman... who else that is a starter and their # in the 90's showed pressure? wynn needs to leave, i love the guy, but not even 2 sacks in an entire season is horrid, and his cap isnt worth what we are getting. joe and phillip are doing great with the hands up and joe was never brought here for qb preasures, but wynn and daniels with griffin were supposed to do it. DE is just a glaring need, wynn didnt do all that great with the run giving some big yards this season and if he cant get sacks either, its time to go IMO

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by jrocx69

so he got 8 sacks down the stretch against some very so so lineman... who else that is a starter and their # in the 90's showed pressure? wynn needs to leave, i love the guy, but not even 2 sacks in an entire season is horrid, and his cap isnt worth what we are getting. joe and phillip are doing great with the hands up and joe was never brought here for qb preasures, but wynn and daniels with griffin were supposed to do it. DE is just a glaring need, wynn didnt do all that great with the run giving some big yards this season and if he cant get sacks either, its time to go IMO

I'm all for signing a good DE if we can find one, but I think it's a 2nd or 3rd priority behind the O-line and depth at WR.

I think we have the fewest problems on defense. IF we needed to improve anything on D it would definitely be the DE position, but I'd spend picks and money on the O-line long before that.

Has the D let us down a few times this year? Sure, but any D will. It's the offense that his really be the most inconsistent element.

[jrocx69]

Originally Posted by Schneed10

Jeez, Phillip Daniels is getting no love around the Warpath lately. He was a one-man wrecking crew for us coming down the stretch. I'd fill other needs before I'd worry about DE.

absolutey not, he got 4 sacks against a bush league OT in dallas, he's hurt alot and HE's in his 30's. DE is a must. on the other hand he played great getting his hands up, and stopping the run on occasion. he played really well, but he is no force. did you not watch seattle though?? we even knew the pass was coming with no big 37 in the game and still no pass rush to save our ass and the few times we did we didnt have a quick enough lineman to stop him from escaping on 2 third down scrambles when they had the chance.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by jrocx69

absolutey not, he got 4 sacks against a bush league OT in dallas, he's hurt alot and HE's in his 30's. DE is a must. on the other hand he played great getting his hands up, and stopping the run on occasion. he played really well, but he is no force. did you not watch seattle though?? we even knew the pass was coming with no big 37 in the game and still no pass rush to save our ass and the few times we did we didnt have a quick enough lineman to stop him from escaping on 2 third down scrambles when they had the chance.

Dude, 4 sacks against ANYBODY in the NFL is impressive. You're delusional if you think any DE could do that. Plus all those tipped passes, plus he's a good run defender.

The team will have a decent amount of cap room, but I think it would be a mistake to go spend big money at DE when we have other problems at other positions. Adding a DE can never hurt, but it wouldn't be my first priority. Salary cap constraints dictate that we look at other positions first, IMO.