Free Agent WRs

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Dana87

:yeahright
I'm glad you put some thought into this before you just starting bashing the QB that got you to the playoffs for the first time since '99 and a scheme that has had some of the great 1-2 punches in the league... Charley Brown, Art Monk...Gary Clark, Art Monk... Nice Job! :yeahright

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

[celts32]

Originally Posted by offiss

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by celts32

This is a little harsh. It was not all Greg Williams. Joe Gibbs was never all about X's & O's...he is a leader of men. He gets them to believe and play harder for him than they woluld anyone else. He envigorated the entire organization with a winning attitude. If it was all defense than why didn't spurrier win with the excellent defense that Marvin lewis built for him? Joe Gibbs has turned everything he touches into a winner. Greg Williams in Buffalo was a failure as a head coach even with one of the best defenses in the league. No doubt Greg Williams is a great defensive coach...but it was Gibbs who built the winning foundation and reinstilled the pride in being a Redskin.

Very good reply, I agree that Gibbs organizational skills are probably maybe the best ever, I also agree that had a big part in the turn around of the team.

But I do disagree with the Lewis analogy, our defense under Lewis although ranked in the top 10 stat wise, never really could stop anyone when it counted, Lewis is not in the same league as Williams defensivly, not even close.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by offiss

Very good reply, I agree that Gibbs organizational skills are probably maybe the best ever, I also agree that had a big part in the turn around of the team.

But I do disagree with the Lewis analogy, our defense under Lewis although ranked in the top 10 stat wise, never really could stop anyone when it counted, Lewis is not in the same league as Williams defensivly, not even close.

I agree that Williams is better than Lewis defensively, but if Williams alone meant winning then he would have won in Buffalo. he had a great defense in Buffalo and might even be able to argue that his offense was better there also. Gibbs is just a winner, plain and simple. You can't find statistics to identify the value that Joe Gibbs brings to an organization.

[jdlea]

I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I have to disagree with you guys about Gregg Williams being better than Marvin Lewis on either side of the ball. Marvin Lewis helped win a Super Bowl as a coordinator and lead one of the greatest D's of all time. He was only here for one year, they would have gotten better, IMO, maybe not, cause Gregg Williams's D didn't get better this year, so I don't really know. However, Marvin Lewis is 10 times the head coach that Gregg Williams is and there's no arguing that. Williams took a decent team and they got really bad, Marvin took the laughing stock of the NFL and took em to the playoffs and hasn't had a losing season there.

IMO it's Lewis 10 times out of 10

[skinsguy]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I have to disagree with you guys about Gregg Williams being better than Marvin Lewis on either side of the ball. Marvin Lewis helped win a Super Bowl as a coordinator and lead one of the greatest D's of all time. He was only here for one year, they would have gotten better, IMO, maybe not, cause Gregg Williams's D didn't get better this year, so I don't really know. However, Marvin Lewis is 10 times the head coach that Gregg Williams is and there's no arguing that. Williams took a decent team and they got really bad, Marvin took the laughing stock of the NFL and took em to the playoffs and hasn't had a losing season there.

IMO it's Lewis 10 times out of 10

That actually makes alot of sense! Look at what Marvin Lewis has done since he became head coach for the Bengals. Gregg Williams couldn't do that when he was in Buffalo. Don't get me wrong, I love Gregg Williams, but if you're going to compare accomplishments, the tide shifts to Lewis.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I have to disagree with you guys about Gregg Williams being better than Marvin Lewis on either side of the ball. Marvin Lewis helped win a Super Bowl as a coordinator and lead one of the greatest D's of all time. He was only here for one year, they would have gotten better, IMO, maybe not, cause Gregg Williams's D didn't get better this year, so I don't really know. However, Marvin Lewis is 10 times the head coach that Gregg Williams is and there's no arguing that. Williams took a decent team and they got really bad, Marvin took the laughing stock of the NFL and took em to the playoffs and hasn't had a losing season there.

IMO it's Lewis 10 times out of 10

Marvin Lewis's defenses in Cinci have been pretty bad though. That team has won more with offense. The Baltimore players actually made Mike Nolan look like he can coach. GW built top defenses in Buffalo and Washington. Lewis is a good coach also but you need to look at which guy had more defensive talent to work with at each stop. Lewis had hall of fame players in Baltimore. Lewis has been more successful as a head coach than GW, that I would not argue.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by jdlea

I'm not trying to start an arguement, but I have to disagree with you guys about Gregg Williams being better than Marvin Lewis on either side of the ball. Marvin Lewis helped win a Super Bowl as a coordinator and lead one of the greatest D's of all time. He was only here for one year, they would have gotten better, IMO, maybe not, cause Gregg Williams's D didn't get better this year, so I don't really know. However, Marvin Lewis is 10 times the head coach that Gregg Williams is and there's no arguing that. Williams took a decent team and they got really bad, Marvin took the laughing stock of the NFL and took em to the playoffs and hasn't had a losing season there.

IMO it's Lewis 10 times out of 10

Defiently a good case can be made for that, one thing I will say is this, Williams had the 10 cent brain and million dollar arm at QB in Bledsoe, but that was his own fault, Lewis has done a terrific job so far for Cinnci, but I would take Williams as my D-coordinator any day over Lewis.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree that Williams is better than Lewis defensively, but if Williams alone meant winning then he would have won in Buffalo. he had a great defense in Buffalo and might even be able to argue that his offense was better there also. Gibbs is just a winner, plain and simple. You can't find statistics to identify the value that Joe Gibbs brings to an organization.

That is a dead on outstanding post Celt, very, very, perceptive!

I do beleive that coupled with Williams has been the difference, I absolutly agree 100%, but that alone isn't enough to win a SB, we have to get going on offense, is it the playcalling? Is it the offensive line? Is it the lack of quality #2,3 WR's? Or is it Brunell? That is the question, something needs fixing if we are to take the big step to SB contender.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by offiss

That is a dead on outstanding post Celt, very, very, perceptive!

I do beleive that coupled with Williams has been the difference, I absolutly agree 100%, but that alone isn't enough to win a SB, we have to get going on offense, is it the playcalling? Is it the offensive line? Is it the lack of quality #2,3 WR's? Or is it Brunell? That is the question, something needs fixing if we are to take the big step to SB contender.

Definitely. Somthing is wrong and it needs fixing. I hope Gibbs has a better idea than we do because it seems none of us agree much. Guess that's why were not coaches.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

What do the 80's have to do with today?

Take a good look at those players they were all brought in by Bobby Beathard.

Do you understand that the NFL and defenses are far different now than they were in the 80's?

You do know Gibbs was out of football for 12 year's? It is very difficult to be what you once were with age, let alone taking 12 years off away from the game. There is no way Gibbs could be in tuned to what is going on with personel in college or the NFL that only comes with time.

And just for the record Patton would have flurished in the 80's in that system as well. So to compare the 2 just doesn't wash.

The biggest knock on Gibbs since he has come back is his inability to catch his offense up with today's defenses. But the best job Gibbs has done is hired Williams to run the defense, because without a top dominating defense we are horrible, even with an average or decent defense we get lambasted this past season, we went to the playoffs because our defense carried us there, end of story!

Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).

[offiss]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Our defense was very instrumental in getting us to the playoffs. But the offense didn't just sit on its ass all season. There are still some kinks to work out (as with any team) but to still say that Gibbs' offense hasn't caught up to today's defenses is, well to be blunt, idiotic. It's so idiotic, it's Offissotic (that was mean I know, but damn funny if I may say so myself).

HMMMmm, so what do think happened to our offense our last 3 games?

How's the counter trey been working out?

I do beleive we set a record in futility against Tampa for offense for a winning team in the playoffs, Tampa is not the 85' bears are they?

When was the last time we saw an offense that fultile during Gibbs first tenure?

Your more than welcome to prove your point.

I guess when J. Jansen said last year we were running an outdated offense he had it all wrong.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by offiss

HMMMmm, so what do think happened to our offense our last 3 games?

How's the counter trey been working out?

I do beleive we set a record in futility against Tampa for offense for a winning team in the playoffs, Tampa is not the 85' bears are they?

When was the last time we saw an offense that fultile during Gibbs first tenure?

Your more than welcome to prove your point.

I guess when J. Jansen said last year we were running an outdated offense he had it all wrong.

Counter trey's been working out fine, suffered a bit when Randy Thomas went down though.

We scored over 30 points in a game five different times this season. Something I believe we've only done once in the past decade.

As for Jansen's comments. First off, they were taken before this season. To say the offense hasn't improved from 2004 to 2005 and can't compete with today's defenses is ridiculous. And secondly, he said he thought we were running a 1992 offense. Which is kind of funny, since in 1992 we won the Super Bowl.