Will Saunders Affect Our QB Situation?

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

So what's your excuse for the preseason and the 1st game of the season, 4 possessions, 2 turnovers?

Wow I have been gone 2 days and this thread is still going strong, sorry I haven't been around to get your back with all these Ramsey haters Rail.

As for you Mr. Pain, who played against what in pre-season? Yes Ramsey played against starters, and Brunell played against the UPS loading dock crew.

What did I say about the TO's for Ramsey you ask? Well according to Gibbs if a WR makes the wrong read on a route and the QB throws it in anticipation of that and gets burned it's not the QB's fault, as we heard late in the year when Gibbs went out of his way to defend Brunell for that very thing, funny we never heard a peep put of him when it happened to Ramsey in the Bears game.

As for his fumble? He's lucky he still has his head from that cheap shot he took which should have never happened.

Now lets take a look at the man with the golden arm, and keep in mind that twinkies are golden shall we, did Brunell have any TO's before his big time throws to Moss? Answer, yes. Now pain were you screaming for Gibbs to yank Brunell at that point considering he was stinking the joint up worse than Ramsey? Or did you just decide to overlook it and act as if it didn't occur? That's a real tough question for myself to answer. :yeahright

[saskin]

For the Ramsey supporters I just wanna ask this....why do you all like to think that Gibbs was obligated to use Ramsey just because another coach with a totally different philosophy drafted him? Yeah Gibbs got Brunell and Campbell. That's because he thinks that they can run his offense better than Ramsey. So of course he's gonna use them.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by offiss

Wow I have been gone 2 days and this thread is still going strong, sorry I haven't been around to get your back with all these Ramsey haters Rail.

As for you Mr. Pain, who played against what in pre-season? Yes Ramsey played against starters, and Brunell played against the UPS loading dock crew.

What did I say about the TO's for Ramsey you ask? Well according to Gibbs if a WR makes the wrong read on a route and the QB throws it in anticipation of that and gets burned it's not the QB's fault, as we heard late in the year when Gibbs went out of his way to defend Brunell for that very thing, funny we never heard a peep put of him when it happened to Ramsey in the Bears game.

As for his fumble? He's lucky he still has his head from that cheap shot he took which should have never happened.

Now lets take a look at the man with the golden arm, and keep in mind that twinkies are golden shall we, did Brunell have any TO's before his big time throws to Moss? Answer, yes. Now pain were you screaming for Gibbs to yank Brunell at that point considering he was stinking the joint up worse than Ramsey? Or did you just decide to overlook it and act as if it didn't occur? That's a real tough question for myself to answer. :yeahright

That response was actually specific to a comment that Ramsey never had the benefit of getting the majority of the reps and his poor play in the past was a result of not being ready to play...

In '04, I was like everyone else and was calling for Brunell's head.. For 56 minutes of the Dallas game I was thinking here we go again.. I still call him Brunold because he looks old a lot.. However, at no other time this season, with the exceptions of the 1st half of the AZ game and once he got hurt, did Brunell look as bad as Ramsey.. The fact that the coaching staff didn't play a healthy Ramsey over an obviously hobbled Brunell should tell you all you need to know about where he stands in the eyes of the organization..

I'm sorry, but Ramsey scares me when he is in the game.. He looks and plays scared. That's not what I want leading my team.. If the Redskins decide to keep him and play him I obviously hope for the best, but I don't think he will be successful as a Redskins QB based on what I've seen.. It's not hate, when he's traded, I hope he does well somewhere else.. He's a class guy, but just not a good QB in my opinion.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

That response was actually specific to a comment that Ramsey never had the benefit of getting the majority of the reps and his poor play in the past was a result of not being ready to play...

In '04, I was like everyone else and was calling for Brunell's head.. For 56 minutes of the Dallas game I was thinking here we go again.. I still call him Brunold because he looks old a lot.. However, at no other time this season, with the exceptions of the 1st half of the AZ game and once he got hurt, did Brunell look as bad as Ramsey.. The fact that the coaching staff didn't play a healthy Ramsey over an obviously hobbled Brunell should tell you all you need to know about where he stands in the eyes of the organization..

I'm sorry, but Ramsey scares me when he is in the game.. He looks and plays scared. That's not what I want leading my team.. If the Redskins decide to keep him and play him I obviously hope for the best, but I don't think he will be successful as a Redskins QB based on what I've seen.. It's not hate, when he's traded, I hope he does well somewhere else.. He's a class guy, but just not a good QB in my opinion.

well said!

I agree he's not the apple of the organzations eye, at least Gibbs, I do think Snyder is a Ramsey guy, but he was responsible for drafting him as well.

What I look at when I see Ramsey is a player who came into a brand new offense in Gibbs, from a kaotic offense as far as protection in SS, and yes when SS was here Ramsey was money with his passas anytime he had an opportunity to actually drop and plant his back foot, unfortunatly that wasen't often with SS. Aside from a WR making the wrong read in the Bears game causing Ramseys first INT, and a chop to the throat for a fumble, he drove the ball very well on what turned out to be maybe the best D in the NFL, yes he had more yards in the first quarter passing than Brunell had in 3. I will always feel that had Ramsey been given the opportunity to understand and become comfortable in Gibbs offense he would be far better than Brunell right now. If Ramsey doesn't get an opportunity with us I would love to see him in miami, or dallas, those are 2 spots with coaches who will allow his talents to flurish.


I will aslo feel that Ramsey status right now is because of a Gibbs promise to Brunell. Gibbs had to convince Brunell to come to DC if you remember when he was rumored to be released he said he wanted to start, and everyone knew that Ramsey had shown tremendous promise under SS, and couldn't wait to see what he would do with a real coach, so Brunell was reluctant to come to us because he didn't want to backup. Then what? Gibbs spends like an entire week with the guy and the next thing you know 43 mil and a second rd. pick he's a skin, with the announcment that it will be an open competition for the starters job? Ramsey wanted out soon as he heard it, why? Because he knew what he was up against, there is no way you give up what we gave up for a veteran QB on his last leg if he could quite seriously be a backup that would be absolutly ridiculous. Gibbs promised him the starters job that is the only way Brunell would come here. Did Gibbs sacrifice winning or a better QB intentionally? No, but he made a commitment to Brunell and stuck with it believing he can win regardless of the QB as he's proven throughout his carreer. And that is why I have always felt Ramsey has been treated as a red headed step child. Can you say the way Brunell played last year that the belief that some how Brunell wasen't Gibbs illegitamate son the way he stuck with him? Then Ramsey finally gets his shot 3 games against 2 of the best teams in the NFL and the 2 best defenses to go with it and looked very good, he also blew out a Giant team that brunell was getting his lunch handed to him the first time we played them.

I don't care who disagree's with this, and I know there will be plenty, but this whole QB controversy is about Gibbs not wanting to admit he made a royal screwup with the Brunell trade, and is know trying to drive a square peg through a round hole to justify it. Maybe he swings a big enough sledge to make that peg fit, but I will always believe it would have been much easier with Ramsey!

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by offiss

Wow I have been gone 2 days and this thread is still going strong, sorry I haven't been around to get your back with all these Ramsey haters Rail.

As for you Mr. Pain, who played against what in pre-season? Yes Ramsey played against starters, and Brunell played against the UPS loading dock crew.

What did I say about the TO's for Ramsey you ask? Well according to Gibbs if a WR makes the wrong read on a route and the QB throws it in anticipation of that and gets burned it's not the QB's fault, as we heard late in the year when Gibbs went out of his way to defend Brunell for that very thing, funny we never heard a peep put of him when it happened to Ramsey in the Bears game.

As for his fumble? He's lucky he still has his head from that cheap shot he took which should have never happened.

Now lets take a look at the man with the golden arm, and keep in mind that twinkies are golden shall we, did Brunell have any TO's before his big time throws to Moss? Answer, yes. Now pain were you screaming for Gibbs to yank Brunell at that point considering he was stinking the joint up worse than Ramsey? Or did you just decide to overlook it and act as if it didn't occur? That's a real tough question for myself to answer. :yeahright

It's doesn't matter of course they weren't asking for the chosen one's head.... any int he could have thrown doesn't count cause he is more superior than any Qb...... Ramsey is just some dumbass with no football skill what so ever.... Brunell deserve's more consideration by the fact that he has so many championships ........he is a 1st ballot hall of famer....

[Monksdown]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

It's doesn't matter of course they weren't asking for the chosen one's head.... any int he could have thrown doesn't count cause he is more superior than any Qb...... Ramsey is just some dumbass with no football skill what so ever.... Brunell deserve's more consideration by the fact that he has so many championships ........he is a 1st ballot hall of famer....

1st ballot? Whatever your smoking, send some my way.

[railcon56]

Originally Posted by Monksdown

1st ballot? Whatever your smoking, send some my way.

LMAO you haven't been reading my posts ...that was tongue in cheek ...I am no brunell fan.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

It's doesn't matter of course they weren't asking for the chosen one's head.... any int he could have thrown doesn't count cause he is more superior than any Qb...... Ramsey is just some dumbass with no football skill what so ever.... Brunell deserve's more consideration by the fact that he has so many championships ........he is a 1st ballot hall of famer....

No one here, to the best of my knowledge, has said the Ramsey was some dumb jock and had no skills. You're going way overboard!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

No one here, to the best of my knowledge, has said the Ramsey was some dumb jock and had no skills. You're going way overboard!

That's the take that the Ramsey backers take.

They make it sound like everyone hates Ramsey and thinks he's got no talent, which just isn't the case.

I think PR has talent and deserves a shot to compete for a job somewhere, but the problem is that Gibbs inherited him and he obviously feels other guys are better fits for him.

Any new coach deserves the opportunity to bring in "his guys", unfortunately Ramsey just isn't in Gibbs' plans.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by railcon56@comcast.net

It's doesn't matter of course they weren't asking for the chosen one's head.... any int he could have thrown doesn't count cause he is more superior than any Qb...... Ramsey is just some dumbass with no football skill what so ever.... Brunell deserve's more consideration by the fact that he has so many championships ........he is a 1st ballot hall of famer....

There you go, playing the martyr again. I have yet to see anyone - ANYONE- assert a) Ramsey stinks. b) Brunnell is a hall of famer. INSTEAD, it simply asserted that a) Brunnell played pretty well for us this year; b) Ramsey has limitations which, GENERALLY SPEAKING, seem to be less of a problem for Brunnell (sacks, ints, lack of mobility). Essentially, everyone supporting Brunnell is saying, Gibbs wants to win, Gibbs knows more about QB's than we (despite being well informed) will ever know.

There is not some dark conspiracy to hold Ramsey back, rather, the coach who got us back to the playoff felt more comfortable with Brunnell. Gibbs would play the Diet Pepsi Machine at QB if he thought it gave the Skins the best chance to win.

Am I satisfied with the team's performance? Yes and No. Do I wish we were going to the SB? Yup. I am happy with the progress and believe we will continue to do so. Yup. Do I trust that Gibbs is the right man to make the decisions as to how best to get to the SB (including deciding which QB gives us the best chance to win)? Yup.

This team has progressed mightily since Spurrier's last game and the orchestrator of that change has been Gibbs.

Are we a better team than Seattle? We weren't on that day and it was not ALL Brunnell's fault. Would we have won with Ramsey? Dunno, but I am betting not. That was a pretty ferocious pass rush and I believe PR would been sacked into last week.

Questions for you RC and Offiss:
Do you believe you know more than Gibbs when it comes to rating QB's?
Do you have a better insight than Gibbs as to what it takes to win playoff games?

Unless you can honestly answer yes to both those questions, your argument (that Ramsey should be or should have been starting) simply has no foundation.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

There you go, playing the martyr again. I have yet to see anyone - ANYONE- assert a) Ramsey stinks. b) Brunnell is a hall of famer. INSTEAD, it simply asserted that a) Brunnell played pretty well for us this year; b) Ramsey has limitations which, GENERALLY SPEAKING, seem to be less of a problem for Brunnell (sacks, ints, lack of mobility). Essentially, everyone supporting Brunnell is saying, Gibbs wants to win, Gibbs knows more about QB's than we (despite being well informed) will ever know.

There is not some dark conspiracy to hold Ramsey back, rather, the coach who got us back to the playoff felt more comfortable with Brunnell. Gibbs would play the Diet Pepsi Machine at QB if he thought it gave the Skins the best chance to win.

Am I satisfied with the team's performance? Yes and No. Do I wish we were going to the SB? Yup. I am happy with the progress and believe we will continue to do so. Yup. Do I trust that Gibbs is the right man to make the decisions as to how best to get to the SB (including deciding which QB gives us the best chance to win)? Yup.

This team has progressed mightily since Spurrier's last game and the orchestrator of that change has been Gibbs.

Are we a better team than Seattle? We weren't on that day and it was not ALL Brunnell's fault. Would we have won with Ramsey? Dunno, but I am betting not. That was a pretty ferocious pass rush and I believe PR would been sacked into last week.

Questions for you RC and Offiss:
Do you believe you know more than Gibbs when it comes to rating QB's?
Do you have a better insight than Gibbs as to what it takes to win playoff games?

Unless you can honestly answer yes to both those questions, your argument (that Ramsey should be or should have been starting) simply has no foundation.

Joe,

As well said as you put it, it won't mean a hill of beans to our colleagues who feel that Ramsey could have taken us to the Super Bowl.

[JoeRedskin]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Joe,

As well said as you put it, it won't mean a hill of beans to our colleagues who feel that Ramsey could have taken us to the Super Bowl.

First - Thanks. Second, yes I know.

Offiss's and RC56's refusal to acknowledge the underlying premise of their argument (that they are a better judge of who should be playing than JG) is that which is most frustrating to me and the only reason I have voiced an opinion. Also, I find the consistent:
1) twisting of the conclusion that, in coming to MB's defense, we somehow believe he is the end all and be all of QB's; and

2) assertion (both explicit and implicit) that, by accepting Gibbs choice of MB over PR, we all hate PR and think he is a big giant no talent shmo.

to be both disengenous and intellectually dishonest.

I like PR - always will, I wish him the best where ever he goes. Frankly, I hope he and Gibbs can work something out for him to stay one more year (through the end of his k). I think this would give us one of the best and possibly THE best QB situation in the league. I just trust that Gibbs overriding desire to win will always prevail and that despite his personal likes, dislikes, or whatever, Gibbs will go with the player he believes will win.