Jason Campbell vs. Vick

[SmootSmack]

I'm sure Pudge didn't join this board to read everyone's internal bickering

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'm sure Pudge didn't join this board to read everyone's internal bickering

No SHIT! I'm out of this thread. It's all yours boys.:tongue

[Redskins_P]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

No SHIT! I'm out of this thread. It's all yours boys.:tongue

Jeez. Talk about a drama queen.

[RobH4413]

---------
on a side note WELCOME PUDGE!

I think if your looking for some perspective on Jason Campbell, they've summed him up pretty well. I'll run a quick pro's and con's for ya...

The Good

1)Jason's best quality thus far has been his incredible poise in the pocket. Under pressure he has shown to be competive. He's broken several tackles, avoided sacks, scrambled for first downs, and gotten the ball off in a relatively timely fashion.

2)He has a very powerful arm, giving our offense (which lacked the deep ball under Brunell) a new dimension that defenses have to respect. ESPN's "Jaws" breaks down his first start here: To Analyze Campbell, 'Jaws' Goes Straight to Video - washingtonpost.com


3)Campbell hasn't thrown those costly INT's. Most of everyone (including me) optimistically assumed that he would throw several picks in his first few games. Thus far, he has proven everyone wrong, and hasn't committed those costly turnovers.

The Bad

1) Jason tends to hold on the ball a little to long sometimes, but Saunders appears to have instituted a "max protect" scheme in order to give him some extra time.

2) Some are worried that his release is a hair too long, and that may cause him issues when pressured (ie, ball stripped, d-line anticipating the throws and deflecting the passes, etc...). So far it's been a very minor problem, but remains an issue.

3) He's young. He may make mistakes, and hasn't seen every NFL defense. Once again, this has yet to be seen as a major factor.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

No SHIT! I'm out of this thread. It's all yours boys.:tongue

Seriously you needa can it with whole "you guys hate me, because you are men" blah blah blahhh. It is getting really old, really fast.

This board is dominated by males and if having logical and rational debates over football is too "male" for you, then don't jump into the arguement.

[hooskins]

Sorry to bring that up again lol, I just get into the thread when I am reading it, even if I am a day or so late.

Either way welcome to the board Pudge, you should most here more often, a respectful opposing fan's opinions are always welcomed.


And personally, I think Vick is the better QB, without a doubt. This is simply because Vick has much more experience in the NFL, versus Campbell's two games. He has lead his team to the playoffs a couple times, and he has single handled won games. Even though he is in consistent, you have to go with experience in this case.

That being said, I feel Campbell might have the potential to become a better QB than Vick in the future, but my analysis is based on the present.

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Seriously you needa can it with whole "you guys hate me, because you are men" blah blah blahhh. It is getting really old, really fast.

This board is dominated by males and if having logical and rational debates over football is too "male" for you, then don't jump into the arguement.

If you are going to bring it up again, then I’m going to reply- There are plenty of men on here that do just what I said - they use sexist statements to light a fire under me. It's the truth and I call it as I see it. I LOVE FOOTBALL and I'll argue all damn day about FOOTBALL, but don't tell me I'm arguing with you because it's a "bad time of the month, or because I'm playing a victim or I'm a drama queen!" All of you on here at one time or another have blown a fuse and unfortunately I can't blame it on the time of the month, or on your “female emotions” ! If you use statements like that, then EXPECT me to say that I'm sick the damn "man card" being played. That's bullshit!

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by hesscl34

If you are going to bring it up again, then I’m going to reply- There are plenty of men on here that do just what I said - they use sexist statements to light a fire under me. It's the truth and I call it as I see it. I LOVE FOOTBALL and I'll argue all damn day about FOOTBALL, but don't tell me I'm arguing with you because it's a "bad time of the month, or because I'm playing a victim or I'm a drama queen!" All of you on here at one time or another have blown a fuse and unfortunately I can't blame it on the time of the month, or on your “female emotions” ! If you use statements like that, then EXPECT me to say that I'm sick the damn "man card" being played. That's bullshit!

See the thing is, when we say those "sexist" comments we are joking. When you pull the "man card" it is usually when you are storming away, after you have been owned in an arguement. The thing is, when someone counters a point that you make, either counter it back with facts, aknowledge that they are correct, or do not say anything. Don't come back saying "Oh why do you put down whatever I say??? Its just my opinion, blah blah".

You get way too emotion when someone proves you wrong or goes agaisnt you, but it really is no big deal, its a freaking forum, so that is what is gonna happen. You really shouldn't take everything as personally as you do.

[Pudge]

On Duckett:

Duckett was a QB in high school and moved to RB at MSU as many know. He came into the league back in '02 with a lot of Bettis comparisons. He had great upside. Unfortunately for him he was picked by the Falcons who had just signed Dunn. Dunn was not a good fit for Reeves offense, but was still a darn good RB, and while Duckett was learning the ropes, he managed to play well enough so that the Falcons couldn't justify benching Dunn.

Then Reeves got fired and the Falcons brought in Greg KNapp & Alex Gibbs, and Duckett is the antithesis of the back that fits in the zone-blocking scheme. He lacks great acceleration. He's a guy that is a good downhill runner, but his vision is only OK, and it takes him forever to get up to speed. But Duckett did manage to improve as a runner during his first 1.5 years under Gibbs, but he totally stunk at the end of 2005. Thus why the Falcons were looking to deal him while they could.

I think Duckett could be a lead back in the NFL, but only for a team like Pittsburgh. He'll never be as good as Bettis, but he coudl be a productive player for a team that loves the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type runners. Pittsburgh, Carolina, Jacksonville, are 3 teams that like those types of runners. The problem is Duckett is particularly one-dimensional, so unless he went to a team that had that perfect niche for him where all he would have to do is get the tough yards inside, then he's not going to work. His blocking has improved since his rookie year (then he was terrible), but he's only considered mildly competent at blitz pickup. His hands are adequate, but probably in a given year as a starter, he'd only be reliable enough to catch 15-20 passes.

Essentially, he'd be a backup on probably all but a few NFL teams. But he's a competent backup, that is a great complement to a speedy back. Which was evident in Atlanta when it was him and Dunn back in '04.

As for the Vick-Schaub QB controversy:

It's not as big as you may think. There has always been a small vocal minority that have wanted Schaub as the starter ever since he joined the team back in 2004. That minority has grown louder this year, but the vast number of Falcon fans still want to see Vick in there. I'm in that camp too. I am curious to see what Schaub can do, I don't have any notions of him being an improvement to Vick, at least immediately.

The Falcons will have the option of trading him after the season. If they do, then hopefully the Falcons get a high draft pick (#2?) and use it on a good player, perhaps an OL or WR. If not, then it might mean the Falcons are less confident in Vick than it would appear. Schaub has been an insurance policy for his entire tenure in Atlanta, and if he is a Falcon again in 2007, it means the team is a few steps closer to cashing that policy in.

But I don't htink anybody is going to see Schaub this year until 1 or 2 things happen:

1) Vick is hurt
2) The Falcons are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. From my perspective, it would probably take another 2 losses for that to happen.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Pudge

On Duckett:

Duckett was a QB in high school and moved to RB at MSU as many know. He came into the league back in '02 with a lot of Bettis comparisons. He had great upside. Unfortunately for him he was picked by the Falcons who had just signed Dunn. Dunn was not a good fit for Reeves offense, but was still a darn good RB, and while Duckett was learning the ropes, he managed to play well enough so that the Falcons couldn't justify benching Dunn.

Then Reeves got fired and the Falcons brought in Greg KNapp & Alex Gibbs, and Duckett is the antithesis of the back that fits in the zone-blocking scheme. He lacks great acceleration. He's a guy that is a good downhill runner, but his vision is only OK, and it takes him forever to get up to speed. But Duckett did manage to improve as a runner during his first 1.5 years under Gibbs, but he totally stunk at the end of 2005. Thus why the Falcons were looking to deal him while they could.

I think Duckett could be a lead back in the NFL, but only for a team like Pittsburgh. He'll never be as good as Bettis, but he coudl be a productive player for a team that loves the "3 yards and a cloud of dust" type runners. Pittsburgh, Carolina, Jacksonville, are 3 teams that like those types of runners. The problem is Duckett is particularly one-dimensional, so unless he went to a team that had that perfect niche for him where all he would have to do is get the tough yards inside, then he's not going to work. His blocking has improved since his rookie year (then he was terrible), but he's only considered mildly competent at blitz pickup. His hands are adequate, but probably in a given year as a starter, he'd only be reliable enough to catch 15-20 passes.

Essentially, he'd be a backup on probably all but a few NFL teams. But he's a competent backup, that is a great complement to a speedy back. Which was evident in Atlanta when it was him and Dunn back in '04.

As for the Vick-Schaub QB controversy:

It's not as big as you may think. There has always been a small vocal minority that have wanted Schaub as the starter ever since he joined the team back in 2004. That minority has grown louder this year, but the vast number of Falcon fans still want to see Vick in there. I'm in that camp too. I am curious to see what Schaub can do, I don't have any notions of him being an improvement to Vick, at least immediately.

The Falcons will have the option of trading him after the season. If they do, then hopefully the Falcons get a high draft pick (#2?) and use it on a good player, perhaps an OL or WR. If not, then it might mean the Falcons are less confident in Vick than it would appear. Schaub has been an insurance policy for his entire tenure in Atlanta, and if he is a Falcon again in 2007, it means the team is a few steps closer to cashing that policy in.

But I don't htink anybody is going to see Schaub this year until 1 or 2 things happen:

1) Vick is hurt
2) The Falcons are mathematically eliminated from the playoffs. From my perspective, it would probably take another 2 losses for that to happen.

Are you sure your post isn't about the rising problem of sexism on internet forums? lol

And about Duckett, thanks for the info that was a nice read. I agree that is basically a really solid backup, a good bruising back if you will.

As for Schaub, the kid is a beast, use to play for Virginia, my school. I have seen alot of film on him, and he is a very accurate pocket passer, who is a great backup, that has the potential of being a starter, but not at the ATL. I think Vick is still your best bet, and I doubt you will see him this year, or ever unless Vick is hurt. Bc if you change a big name player like Vick, it means he is 2nd string automatically.

[hooskins]

lol "kids"...you are hilarious. Keep it up.

[hesscl34]

Originally Posted by hooskins

lol "kids"...you are hilarious. Keep it up.

... nope.... lost interest.....

[hooskins]

So Pudge, do you honestly think your team would bench Vick? Ever? I just do not think it would ever happen. I think you guys are gonna have Vick starting until he gets old or hurt.

[Monkeydad]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

I'm sure Pudge didn't join this board to read everyone's internal bickering

Yeah, be nice to the new person or we'll get a ton of e-birds flipped at us.

His points are valid and he was nice in asking his questions.

WELCOME TO THE BOARD! We're not ALL jerks.