Civil Discussion About Religion

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by jsarno

No person can be 100% pure. It's impossible. That aside, I actually understand exactly where you're coming from. That's why I said my comments about grace in a previous post, and comments about "why do all the religions have the same common demoninator in God with several different saviors?"
I also look at it like this, if God loves us unconditionally, then why would he set us up for certain doom. Maybe, just maybe, the bible is a way of scaring us straight. Kind of like when you parents said "you'll get hairy palms if you masterbate (or go blind)", or "if you take a hit of marijuana, you'll die". etc. Their intentions are honorable, but they are trying to scare you from doing something that could hurt you.

It was an exaggeration to emphasize a point...


Organized religions are human institutions. Anything human is always very, very corrupt. You can look at governments to understand that. I'm not saying that they're totally evil things, but I think they do alot more harm then most people can come to terms with.

Your second point I tend to agree with. If you look at every religion, you'll find a similar path; be God like. This is taken both literally and metaphorically in some religions... where some believe that one will become god and lose their individuality, or that we are to look to a "God" as a guide to live by.

Christianity is living like Jesus, and Jesus is in-fact God.

I hate to bring the same quote from earlier in the thread, but..

Originally Posted by 311

In times of trouble
Everyone joins a team
No one waves a flag
For all human beings
No one's excited
Unless they are divided
Someone's going to have to give
It seems uncertain
I'd like to be
One of the faithful millions
But what I see
Is an excuse for the killing

Your denomination
Should be a private thing
How about a spirit
For all human beings
How could something well guided
Turn out to be divisive
Mostly wondering
It seems uncertain

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

It was an exaggeration to emphasize a point...


Organized religions are human institutions. Anything human is always very, very corrupt. You can look at governments to understand that. I'm not saying that they're totally evil things, but I think they do alot more harm then most people can come to terms with.

Your second point I tend to agree with. If you look at every religion, you'll find a similar path; be God like. This is taken both literally and metaphorically in some religions... where some believe that one will become god and lose their individuality, or that we are to look to a "God" as a guide to live by.

Christianity is living like Jesus, and Jesus is in-fact God.

I hate to bring the same quote from earlier in the thread, but..

#1- What the hell are you doing up so late / early?
#2- Quoting a racist group (311...ie: 3, 11 being the K in the alphabet as the 11th letter...3 K's...KKK.) is not a good thing.

[RobH4413]

Originally Posted by jsarno

#1- What the hell are you doing up so late / early?
#2- Quoting a racist group (311...ie: 3, 11 being the K in the alphabet as the 11th letter...3 K's...KKK.) is not a good thing.

#1) I work at a bar/restaurant called "Hard Times Cafe"... I get out of there around 3:00/3:30 so Im usually up for a good hour after I get off. My schedule varies greatly, so some Im always on at awkward times.

#2) You just irked every 311 fan in the world on that one. I'll clear the air for ya:

Originally Posted by http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/311_(band)

In 1997 the band started to receive criticism due to perceived racism as "311" is used as a symbol, particularly in prison tattoos, for the Ku Klux Klan because K is the 11th letter of the alphabet (Three 11s = Three Ks = KKK) It was also rumored that Nick Hexum was a member of The National Front, which is a white supremacy group.

The name actually came from a skinny dipping incident when Jim Watson, the band's former guitarist, was charged with indecent exposure by the Omaha Police Department and was escorted home handcuffed and naked. The police code which appeared on the citation was "311". Nick Hexum has said: After the humor of the name wore off, we still kept it because we liked that it was just abstract and that it did not define us in any way. The name did not describe our sound or our politics, it just let the music speak for itself.
Released in 1994 on Grassroots, long before the KKK rumor surfaced, the song "Silver" provides some strong words about racism:
Of the racist institutions, simple minds belong;Not happy being human, no wish to get along.Little people need exclusions; sucker groups to throng.It makes them feel special; it makes them feel strong.Now I've got a clique but it's more like a family.Not an ethnic trip more like an ethic sea.I write the rhyme today, tell it to you later.Whether we're comin' in whack or what.It's a waste to be a hater.
In response to the rumors, Nick Hexum began to write a song for the 1997 release Transistor titled "**** The KKK". After thinking about the title and how it wasn't true to the positive nature of 311, he revised it and ended up with "Electricity", the sixth track on the album.
First two lines from "Electricity":
This song started as a rant against hatersBut that'd be giving in to the instigators
Last verse:
A call out for unityIn every province and city.What do you think we've been saying''Since we first started playing?
(These last lines can be seen as a reference to the early 311 song "Unity".) It should also be noted that singer Doug "SA" Martinez is of Latino descent.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

#1) I work at a bar/restaurant called "Hard Times Cafe"... I get out of there around 3:00/3:30 so Im usually up for a good hour after I get off. My schedule varies greatly, so some Im always on at awkward times.

#2) You just irked every 311 fan in the world on that one. I'll clear the air for ya:

I understand the working at a restaurant part...I often post at those hours due to my wierd restaurant work schedule.

About #2, I actually did not know that...311 was never one of my favorite bands...they weren't that good IMO...so I never had any reason to doubt that "rumor".