Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???

TheMalcolmConnection · 01-25-2007, 03:23 PM

Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too.

They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do.

GTripp0012 · 01-25-2007, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too.

They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do.

Not to say draft status is a great measure of production (it isn't), but on their offense alone:

Logan Mankins-1st round
Daniel Graham-1st round
Ben Watson-1st round
Laurence Maroney-1st round
Matt Light-2nd round
Reche Caldwell-2nd round (by San Diego)
Jabar Gaffney-2nd round (by Houston)
Chad Jackson-2nd round
Kevin Faulk-2nd round
Nick Kazur-3rd round

The Patriots have also spent second round picks on receivers Bethyl Johnson, and Deion Branch.

The point is that the Patriots have poured a bunch into their offense, 10 players were drafted in the first day, 7 of those guys are starters. So while Brady certainly is the guy who makes it all work, it shouldn't surprise anyone that wins, cause he has so much to work with.

Sheriff Gonna Getcha · 01-25-2007, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too.

They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do.

I'd take 1 Tom Brady and 10 no-names over 1 sub-par QB and 10 good players. I think Belichick is a good coach, but I'm not sure what he would do without Brady.

GiantsSuck703 · 01-25-2007, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Not to say draft status is a great measure of production (it isn't), but on their offense alone:

Logan Mankins-1st round
Daniel Graham-1st round
Ben Watson-1st round
Laurence Maroney-1st round
Matt Light-2nd round
Reche Caldwell-2nd round (by San Diego)
Jabar Gaffney-2nd round (by Houston)
Chad Jackson-2nd round
Kevin Faulk-2nd round
Nick Kazur-3rd round

The Patriots have also spent second round picks on receivers Bethyl Johnson, and Deion Branch.

The point is that the Patriots have poured a bunch into their offense, 10 players were drafted in the first day, 7 of those guys are starters. So while Brady certainly is the guy who makes it all work, it shouldn't surprise anyone that wins, cause he has so much to work with.

Noboby on that list is a top player in that league, and pretty much all of them are at best average players

Pocket$ $traight · 01-25-2007, 08:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

i think maybe being a 3rd corner, behind a rookie, might be an indication that his skill level has dropped

Given all of the things that he has been involved with politics is probably just as likely.

Politics rules our team and there is no reason to think that it isn't important on other teams (especially with Smoot's track record in Minny).

dmek25 · 01-26-2007, 06:36 AM

i would say ability, and money rule. every coach in this league will put their best players on the field. and if its close, then the player making the most will play. smooty is on the downside of his career. probably out of the NFL in 2 years

vaoutlaws2006 · 01-26-2007, 06:54 AM

either works for me. it would be an upgrade over what we had this past season.

Pocket$ $traight · 01-26-2007, 07:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

i would say ability, and money rule. every coach in this league will put their best players on the field. and if its close, then the player making the most will play. smooty is on the downside of his career. probably out of the NFL in 2 years

Honestly, have you paid attention to the Redskins the last two years? So Holdman is better and made more money than McIntosh and Lavar. I am glad that is clarified now.

When Smoot played us he didn't look like a player who would be out of the league in two years.

dmek25 · 01-26-2007, 08:19 AM

this is a bad comparison. Lavar was injured for most of the season. and last season Holdman probably made more base salary then McIntosh. and ask Steve Smith how good Fred Smoot is. something like 10 catches, for about 150 yards and 2 touchdowns. and i know how good Smith is, but i remember Mr Springs doing a pretty good job on him this last season

Pocket$ $traight · 01-26-2007, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dmek25

this is a bad comparison. Lavar was injured for most of the season. and last season Holdman probably made more base salary then McIntosh. and ask Steve Smith how good Fred Smoot is. something like 10 catches, for about 150 yards and 2 touchdowns. and i know how good Smith is, but i remember Mr Springs doing a pretty good job on him this last season

Smoot tried to cover him straight up. Smoot couldn't cover Ike Hilliard straight up I don't know why anyone would let him cover Smith 1 on 1. I am pretty sure that Springs had a lot of help. If Smith had Springs (or any corner) 1 on 1 the whole game you will see big production out of Smith.

GTripp0012 · 01-26-2007, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GiantsSuck703

Noboby on that list is a top player in that league, and pretty much all of them are at best average players

OK, I think you're wrong. Either way, the Patriots have invested a lot to inject talent into their offense. That's the point. Brady isn't making great players out of camp scrubs, he doing it with guys who did great in college, and had just yet to find their niche in the NFL. The Patriots (much like Joe Gibbs...but apparently not Al Saunders) are very good at maximizing the talent on their roster. So why would they go out and spend lavishly on a wideout who touches the ball on average 3-4 times a game when they can call plays that maximize the talent of guys who had considerable amounts of it, but for whatever reason nobody wanted them?

Bill B · 02-09-2007, 02:33 PM

Well it looks like Nate wants to really be paid big time:

"Clements' asking price is already high. The one-time Pro Bowl selection and six-year veteran has previously said that he wants to be the top-paid player at his position. Champ Bailey set the standard when he signed a seven-year, $63 million contract with Denver in 2004 that included an $18 million bonus."

I know the skins have given a lot of $10 million signing bonuses, but an $18 million signing bonus is a lot of dough to cough up for one player.

Buffalo Bills, Nate Clements, National Football League - CBS SportsLine.com

TheMalcolmConnection · 02-09-2007, 02:40 PM

The fact that he SAYS he wants to be the highest paid player at the position makes me want him even less. Please be reasonable coaches, Hood or Smoot or draft.

GTripp0012 · 02-09-2007, 02:46 PM

I think we will be willing to pay him more than anyone else will, most likely.

I don't have a problem with spending lavishly on ONE guy this offseason who has proven himself (although I'd prefer that you only spend lavishly on free agents whose progress you can statistically track [QB, RB, WR], it makes it safer). I do have a problem if we do it with 4 guys who haven't proven crap.

Clements would be a better signing then anyone we got last year, so I'm cool with giving him what he deserves. Not what he thinks he does, but no one is going to give him anywhere near that.

GhettoDogAllStars · 02-09-2007, 03:01 PM

I'm sick of all this "top-paid" player, BS. You don't deserve to be the top-paid player at your position, unless you are the best at your position -- Clements is not even in the top 3 at his position.

01-25-2007, 03:23 PM	#76
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? Aside from Tom Brady, I'd challenge anyone to really name an elite player on their offense. Their defense has more talent than their offense, but still, a lot of mediocre players over there too. They just win, and Belicheck is the main reason they do. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

01-26-2007, 06:36 AM	#81
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? i would say ability, and money rule. every coach in this league will put their best players on the field. and if its close, then the player making the most will play. smooty is on the downside of his career. probably out of the NFL in 2 years __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

01-26-2007, 06:54 AM	#82
vaoutlaws2006 Impact Rookie Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Fayettenam, NC Age: 53 Posts: 806	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? either works for me. it would be an upgrade over what we had this past season. __________________ The future is obviously right now!

01-26-2007, 08:19 AM	#84
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? this is a bad comparison. Lavar was injured for most of the season. and last season Holdman probably made more base salary then McIntosh. and ask Steve Smith how good Fred Smoot is. something like 10 catches, for about 150 yards and 2 touchdowns. and i know how good Smith is, but i remember Mr Springs doing a pretty good job on him this last season __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

02-09-2007, 02:33 PM	#87
Bill B Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 721	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? Well it looks like Nate wants to really be paid big time: "Clements' asking price is already high. The one-time Pro Bowl selection and six-year veteran has previously said that he wants to be the top-paid player at his position. Champ Bailey set the standard when he signed a seven-year, $63 million contract with Denver in 2004 that included an $18 million bonus." I know the skins have given a lot of $10 million signing bonuses, but an $18 million signing bonus is a lot of dough to cough up for one player. Buffalo Bills, Nate Clements, National Football League - CBS SportsLine.com

02-09-2007, 02:40 PM	#88
TheMalcolmConnection I like big (_\|_)s. Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Charlottesville, Virginia Age: 44 Posts: 19,264	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? The fact that he SAYS he wants to be the highest paid player at the position makes me want him even less. Please be reasonable coaches, Hood or Smoot or draft. __________________ Regret nothing. At one time it was exactly what you wanted.

02-09-2007, 02:46 PM	#89
GTripp0012 Living Legend Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Evanston, IL Age: 37 Posts: 15,994	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? I think we will be willing to pay him more than anyone else will, most likely. I don't have a problem with spending lavishly on ONE guy this offseason who has proven himself (although I'd prefer that you only spend lavishly on free agents whose progress you can statistically track [QB, RB, WR], it makes it safer). I do have a problem if we do it with 4 guys who haven't proven crap. Clements would be a better signing then anyone we got last year, so I'm cool with giving him what he deserves. Not what he thinks he does, but no one is going to give him anywhere near that. __________________ according to a source with knowledge of the situation.

02-09-2007, 03:01 PM	#90
GhettoDogAllStars Playmaker Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Denver Age: 43 Posts: 2,762	Re: Asante Samuel or Nate Clements??? I'm sick of all this "top-paid" player, BS. You don't deserve to be the top-paid player at your position, unless you are the best at your position -- Clements is not even in the top 3 at his position. __________________ To succeed in the world it is not enough to be stupid, you must also be well-mannered.

Asante Samuel or Nate Clements???

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