The Dan Snyder You Don't Know

[ncskinsfanec]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Skinsfan, I'd love to see Snyder put his foot down and tell Gibbs after going 6-10 he needs to spend a bit more time working on coaching and less on bringing in free agents. Unfortunately, like most of this board Snyder sees Gibbs as some sort of golden god that can do no harm. When fact of the matter is Gibbs took us to the playoffs once and that was because we have a mauling offensive line, a beast named Portis, and a great defense.

People hold Gibbs as some sort of a golden god because he brought unprecedented success and super bowl glory to this franchise. It's frustrating and dissapointing that he hasn't achieved the same kind of success, so far, this time around. I wish Gibbs would give up being GM, but maybe with a little patience from everyone, maybe he can figure out how to do that well too. I strongly believe, if the defense can be at least decent next season, we can make another playoff run!

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by ncskinsfanec

People hold Gibbs as some sort of a golden god because he brought unprecedented success and super bowl glory to this franchise. It's frustrating and dissapointing that he hasn't achieved the same kind of success, so far, this time around. I wish Gibbs would give up being GM, but maybe with a little patience from everyone, maybe he can figure out how to do that well too. I strongly believe, if the defense can be at least decent next season, we can make another playoff run!

Totally agree. I, like everyone else am VERY frustrated, but mostly disappointed with our results this year. I have complete faith that Joe2 can repair. He is an entrepreneur, a leader. Accomplished in many area's. He is compelled to improvise, adapt, and overcome. It will happen

[Daseal]

Matty, I honestly think it was a small part of the success. I feel Portis and the line played fundamental football in an overly conservative offense. I feel we lost games due to the conservative offense and we keep pushing games to our defense and say "Hey, you win this one" instead of our offense ever just finishing an opponent off.

I really think Gibbs lacks that killer instinct, he's too worried about feelings now days. I think he's absolutely baffled when it comes to how the NFL works now days. Hell, Dick Vermeil was out of the league for 4-5 years and said that he still couldn't keep up with the changes that took place over that time.

I guess I don't see how people can sit here and talk about how terrible of a coach Greg Williams is after having one bad year on defense. Since he's been a defensive coordinator and even a head coach his defense plays lights out football. He has one dismal season and he needs to be fired, he can't ever take over the 'skins, etc. Yet Gibbs has been more than mediocre since his return.

Yes, back in the 80's he was an excellent coach, he took the team on to win 3 Super Bowls. The man is a great Redskin, and he was a great coach. I think part of the reason we have a million coaches is because Gibbs is somewhat shellshocked and not ready for it. It is typical to give a coach three years in the NFL, in three years he's gone 21-27. For the talent we have, that would get any other coach fired.

Yes, one year we got to the playoffs by the skin of our teeth, and Gibbs side of the ball had the worst offensive performance in NFL playoff history. I just think that the man gets far too much credit for what he's doing this go around, which has been very mediocre. If you asked a random pool of NFL fans, I bet 90-95 wouldn't put Gibbs in their top 10 list for current coaches, I know I wouldn't.

[SmootSmack]

Gibbs had a "million" coaches in the 80s as well so that's nothing new.

[MTK]

A small part?

He's the one that brought Portis here along with other key guys like Rabach, Moss, Washington, Griffin, Springs, Cooley, Brunell, Taylor, etc. It was also his offense which helped get us to the playoffs.

As we've discussed many times before, yes the offense faltered late in the year but it was an offense that was 11th overall in yardage and 13th overall in points scored. Let's stop citing just the last few games of that year and instead consider the entire body of work.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

Gibbs had a "million" coaches in the 80s as well so that's nothing new.

Yep the Skins under Gibbs have typically had the largest staff in the league. Watching the replay of the Skins-Broncos Super Bowl a few weeks ago Al Michaels mentioned the large staff.

[SmootSmack]

The problem is Gibbs when you think about it. Because when there's a "problem" he's always the first to take the blame and say "it's on me" But when things go well he deflects all the praise elsewhere. So people tend to forget the positive impact he has on the team. He needs to take on a more Phil Jacksonesque "I am God's gift to coaching" approach

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by TAFKAS

The problem is Gibbs when you think about it. Because when there's a "problem" he's always the first to take the blame and say "it's on me" But when things go well he deflects all the praise elsewhere. So people tend to forget the positive impact he has on the team. He needs to take on a more Phil Jacksonesque "I am God's gift to coaching" approach

Not going to happen. Joe2 is a good guy, not an ego-maniac

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Daseal

Matty, I honestly think it was a small part of the success. I feel Portis and the line played fundamental football in an overly conservative offense. I feel we lost games due to the conservative offense and we keep pushing games to our defense and say "Hey, you win this one" instead of our offense ever just finishing an opponent off.

I really think Gibbs lacks that killer instinct, he's too worried about feelings now days. I think he's absolutely baffled when it comes to how the NFL works now days. Hell, Dick Vermeil was out of the league for 4-5 years and said that he still couldn't keep up with the changes that took place over that time.

I guess I don't see how people can sit here and talk about how terrible of a coach Greg Williams is after having one bad year on defense. Since he's been a defensive coordinator and even a head coach his defense plays lights out football. He has one dismal season and he needs to be fired, he can't ever take over the 'skins, etc. Yet Gibbs has been more than mediocre since his return.

Yes, back in the 80's he was an excellent coach, he took the team on to win 3 Super Bowls. The man is a great Redskin, and he was a great coach. I think part of the reason we have a million coaches is because Gibbs is somewhat shellshocked and not ready for it. It is typical to give a coach three years in the NFL, in three years he's gone 21-27. For the talent we have, that would get any other coach fired.

Yes, one year we got to the playoffs by the skin of our teeth, and Gibbs side of the ball had the worst offensive performance in NFL playoff history. I just think that the man gets far too much credit for what he's doing this go around, which has been very mediocre. If you asked a random pool of NFL fans, I bet 90-95 wouldn't put Gibbs in their top 10 list for current coaches, I know I wouldn't.

Very well put. I sure wish Gibbs 2 had some Sean Payton in him.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

As we've discussed many times before, yes the offense faltered late in the year but it was an offense that was 11th overall in yardage and 13th overall in points scored. Let's stop citing just the last few games of that year and instead consider the entire body of work.

Amen.

I maintain that while Saunders' offensive system allows for more growth over time, there has never been anyone better than Gibbs at creating an offensive system that suits the needs of his players with an eye on the here and now.

Our offense didn't perform poorly over the whole body of work through the first 10 games of last season by any means, but we had players that Gibbs had modified his singleback system precisely for in 2005 and it was working. We then blew the whole thing up and went with Saunders' offense, and it just failed to maximize the strength of the players. We had Betts in on 3rd downs when he was a clearly inferior pass blocker, Lloyd and Randle El going down the field instead of working the intermediate range, Cooley in pass pro far too often, and we struggled with pass pro at times.

Although those issues were ironed out by the end of the year, Gibbs' offense could have probably been in the top ten this year, even had we not acquired any receiving help this offseason.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Very well put. I sure wish Gibbs 2 had some Sean Payton in him.

Ugh. Sean Payton coaches his team to a 10-6 record and one playoff victory (sound familiar?) and now we are annoiting him? Seems like a double standard to me.

We don't if Payton turned that thing around himself or if he just walked into a situation that was turning itself around and came along for the ride. We may never know. Likewise, we don't know if the 05 Skins would have been a playoff team with a different coach at the controls. But if you look only at the side of the ball that the coach has direct control over, it seems like Gibbs milked more production out of less then Payton did with Brees, Bush, McAllister, Horn and that team this year.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Ugh. Sean Payton coaches his team to a 10-6 record and one playoff victory (sound familiar?) and now we are annoiting him? Seems like a double standard to me.

LOL people love the bandwagon.

Next year there will be another flavor of the week too.

I'm with you, let's see a bit more of Payton before we crown his ass, shall we?

[Longtimefan]

That was a very good article relative to Dan Snyder, I didn't know how he met Joe Gibbs or how long he had known him.

I have always felt that Snyder has taken a lot of undue critisizm in the media from people who do not really know anything about the man. They sometimes have a tendency to say thimgs they've heard someone else say and run with it. I've been a fan through all four owners the team has had, and while Snyder does not rank with JKC, he's done everything from a financial standpoint to make the team a winner. How many of us at thirty seven years old, and paid eight hunderd million dollars for something, and not want to have any say as to how it's run or operated? He's young, and has made mistakes (who hasn't?) I want him to turn out to be the finest young owner in the NFL, and wish Joe Gibbs was twenty years younger.

We should all be happy that John Cooke didn't get the team because he didn't have any money to put into it. Had he purchased the team we would be saying just the opposite of what we're saying about Snyder and his spending.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Ugh. Sean Payton coaches his team to a 10-6 record and one playoff victory (sound familiar?) and now we are annoiting him? Seems like a double standard to me.

We don't if Payton turned that thing around himself or if he just walked into a situation that was turning itself around and came along for the ride. We may never know. Likewise, we don't know if the 05 Skins would have been a playoff team with a different coach at the controls. But if you look only at the side of the ball that the coach has direct control over, it seems like Gibbs milked more production out of less then Payton did with Brees, Bush, McAllister, Horn and that team this year.

Forget what Payton did record wise. What I meant to say was Payton is aggressive as hell. Remember the Dallas NO game? When would Gibbs 2 ever go for an onside kick? When does Gibbs 2 go for it on 4th down when the game is on the line. When Payton gets up on you he wants to bury you. He wants to step on your throat. When it's 4th and short Gibbs 2 calls TO's, holds a conference call with all the coaches and kicks a FG. That's the crap that MUST STOP. Gibbs 2 coaches not to lose instead of to win. Always wants the defense to win the game. Whenever Gibbs step down I would go get some young blood in here that's not afraid to coach aggressive. In the meantime lets hope this thing gets fixed next year.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

That was a very good article relative to Dan Snyder, I didn't know how he met Joe Gibbs or how long he had known him.

I have always felt that Snyder has taken a lot of undue critisizm in the media from people who do not really know anything about the man. They sometimes have a tendency to say thimgs they've heard someone else say and run with it. I've been a fan through all four owners the team has had, and while Snyder does not rank with JKC, he's done everything from a financial standpoint to make the team a winner. How many of us at thirty seven years old, and paid eight hunderd million dollars for something, and not want to have any say as to how it's run or operated? He's young, and has made mistakes (who hasn't?) I want him to turn out to be the finest young owner in the NFL, and wish Joe Gibbs was twenty years younger.

We should all be happy that John Cooke didn't get the team because he didn't have any money to put into it. Had he purchased the team we would be saying just the opposite of what we're saying about Snyder and his spending.

Snyder is not qualified to make good football moves. He's not an NFL personel guy who will go to Emporia State and look at a prospect. Yes stay invloved, ask questions but trust your men to make good football moves. Just like JKC did, and most other good NFL owners do.

I would have been VERY HAPPY if John Cooke had kept the team. You know why? Becasue we would have a qualified GM in place and the Redskins would not be run like a fantasy football team. There would be stability in the coaching staff. John Cooke would have NEVER hired a college coach who didn't have a clue what he was doing. And I bet that players like Champ Bailey, Steven Davis, A. Pierce and other core guys would not have left town

The reason he didn't have any $ is becasue his Dad left most of his $ to the JKC Foundation. That's the million $ question. Why didn't he just leave the team to John? Most NFL teams are passed down to the children like in the cases of the NYG, KC Cheifs and Cleveland Browns.