Dominic Rhodes to Oakland Raiders

[TheMalcolmConnection]

If I'm Oakland, I'm landing a veteran QB, maybe Rattay, taking Joe Thomas with the first overall pick, make some trades and get Grubbs or Blaylock. Just look what the Jets did with shrewd picks on the offensive line last year. Mangold and Ferguson both paid dividends for them.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by TheMalcolmConnection

If I'm Oakland, I'm landing a veteran QB, maybe Rattay, taking Joe Thomas with the first overall pick, make some trades and get Grubbs or Blaylock. Just look what the Jets did with shrewd picks on the offensive line last year. Mangold and Ferguson both paid dividends for them.

I like the way you think, but Oakland already tried that approach. What they got was one of the biggest busts in draft history. I thought they were going to take Roethlisberger at No. 2 in 2004, they took Gallery--and the rest is history. The franchise has been in shambles ever since Gannon tore his labrum in 2003 and it's got something to do with never having a QB more talented than Aaron Brooks on the roster. This team SHOULD have already taken a QB in the first round and just can't ignore the future of that position anymore.

I think Quinn is far superior, but even if they go with Russell, they will be far better off in the long run than by selecting at any other postion; as good as I think Joe Thomas can be.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I like the way you think, but Oakland already tried that approach. What they got was one of the biggest busts in draft history. I thought they were going to take Roethlisberger at No. 2 in 2004, they took Gallery--and the rest is history. The franchise has been in shambles ever since Gannon tore his labrum in 2003 and it's got something to do with never having a QB more talented than Aaron Brooks on the roster. This team SHOULD have already taken a QB in the first round and just can't ignore the future of that position anymore.

I think Quinn is far superior, but even if they go with Russell, they will be far better off in the long run than by selecting at any other postion; as good as I think Joe Thomas can be.

You think Brady Quinn is superior over Russell? Really???? Not sure if you saw any LSU games or not but I don't think there is a QB in this draft that comes close to this guy's ability. He makes throws that very few guys can maake on the NFL level neverless the college level. His weight concerns me but that's about it.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

You think Brady Quinn is superior over Russell? Really???? Not sure if you saw any LSU games or not but I don't think there is a QB in this draft that comes close to this guy's ability. He makes throws that very few guys can maake on the NFL level neverless the college level. His weight concerns me but that's about it.

I'm guessing you probably haven't seen much Quinn.

I don't know what "ability" you are talking about though. Does Russell have all the physical tools? No one is questioning his unbelieveable arm strength, but does that give him an advantage over Quinn? I'm not sure an ability to throw the ball 75+ yards will ever have practical purpose in an NFL game considering it would take receviers 8-10 seconds to run that far.

Russell throws exceptionally well on the run, but he lacks general mobility. In the NFL, he's going to have to be a prototypical pocket passer.

Playing QB is all about the mind (assuming that the QB doesnt have a damning physical limitation). Players with crappy physical skills are among the greatest QBs ever (think Marino). Based on his college production, Russell's mind for the game exceeds the level of nearly all draft-eligible quarterbacks. But does anyone think he understands the position better than Quinn? That's crazy talk.

The only physical limitation between the QBs is probably Russell's mobility. They are both great prospects, but I have no reason to assume Russell will be better.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'm guessing you probably haven't seen much Quinn.

I don't know what "ability" you are talking about though. Does Russell have all the physical tools? No one is questioning his unbelieveable arm strength, but does that give him an advantage over Quinn? I'm not sure an ability to throw the ball 75+ yards will ever have practical purpose in an NFL game considering it would take receviers 8-10 seconds to run that far.

Russell throws exceptionally well on the run, but he lacks general mobility. In the NFL, he's going to have to be a prototypical pocket passer.

Playing QB is all about the mind (assuming that the QB doesnt have a damning physical limitation). Players with crappy physical skills are among the greatest QBs ever (think Marino). Based on his college production, Russell's mind for the game exceeds the level of nearly all draft-eligible quarterbacks. But does anyone think he understands the position better than Quinn? That's crazy talk.

The only physical limitation between the QBs is probably Russell's mobility. They are both great prospects, but I have no reason to assume Russell will be better.

I watch alot of college ball. I saw Brady Quinn every week for two years. He's not the most accurate guy around. I honestly think Quinn get's a lot of hype cause he's from ND. Don't get me wrong, he's really good. He benefits from a passing offense. But I don't think he's any better than Troy Smith, Chris Leak or Kevin Kolb. Smith had just as good a year if not better. He got better once Weiss came to South Bend. I would say Quinn has had the better coaching of anyone. But Russell is just a freak. Quicker release, better arm, more accurate. Plus he's very mobile for his size. He just has not had Quinn's coaching. When he get's to Oak, and if Sarkeshain can work on his footwork, and if the Raiders can straighten out Moss and Porter, look out. Of course that's a lot of if's.

And Marino had great physical skills. Great feet, cannon arm and the best release of all time. That's almost all you need to play QB.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I watch alot of college ball. I saw Brady Quinn every week for two years. He's not the most accurate guy around. I honestly think Quinn get's a lot of hype cause he's from ND. Don't get me wrong, he's really good. He benefits from a passing offense. But I don't think he's any better than Troy Smith, Chris Leak or Kevin Kolb. Smith had just as good a year if not better. He got better once Weiss came to South Bend. I would say Quinn has had the better coaching of anyone. But Russell is just a freak. Quicker release, better arm, more accurate. Plus he's very mobile for his size. He just has not had Quinn's coaching. When he get's to Oak, and if Sarkeshain can work on his footwork, and if the Raiders can straighten out Moss and Porter, look out. Of course that's a lot of if's.

And Marino had great physical skills. Great feet, cannon arm and the best release of all time. That's almost all you need to play QB.

he's better than chris leak? on what planet?

[Crat92]

Originally Posted by That Guy

he's not any better than chris leak? on what planet?

So what are you saying?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

I watch alot of college ball. I saw Brady Quinn every week for two years. He's not the most accurate guy around. I honestly think Quinn get's a lot of hype cause he's from ND. Don't get me wrong, he's really good. He benefits from a passing offense. But I don't think he's any better than Troy Smith, Chris Leak or Kevin Kolb. Smith had just as good a year if not better. He got better once Weiss came to South Bend. I would say Quinn has had the better coaching of anyone. But Russell is just a freak. Quicker release, better arm, more accurate. Plus he's very mobile for his size. He just has not had Quinn's coaching. When he get's to Oak, and if Sarkeshain can work on his footwork, and if the Raiders can straighten out Moss and Porter, look out. Of course that's a lot of if's.

And Marino had great physical skills. Great feet, cannon arm and the best release of all time. That's almost all you need to play QB.

I think you are taking too lightly the differences between a great college QB and a great NFL prospect. Troy Smith had a better year, obviously, and while I don't think that Leak was/is nearly as good as Quinn and that there is no was to project Kolb's numbers to major D-I competition, it's not an undefendable stance to say that they were better college QBs than Quinn.

In college, athleticism goes a long way. The last year he played at Va. Tech, Vick was probably the best QB in the nation. At the next level, the value of athleticism in a QB is cut down significantly. This is why guys like Quinn and Russell project better than Smith or Leak. That's not to say Leak or Smith can't play from the pocket, because they obviously can, but they are clearly inferrior to Russell and Quinn. It's also not to say that athleticism is worthless at the NFL level (see: Young, Vince) because it can be another weapon in a guys game, but it's not going to make a poor passer by NFL standards a good QB (see: Vick, Michael).

Don't overestimate the effect of Weis on the ND offense. He's a pretty good playcaller, and he's got a good system, but he's human. He made a bunch of mistakes in playcalling last year. He overestimated the talent of his offensive line and left Quinn unprotected too many times. Quinn's statistical surge as a junior, which most people just see and attribute to Weis, was probabaly going to happen to a fairly similar degree no matter who the coach was. Weis most likely walked into a great offensive situation. Where Weis is better than the average coach is in his aggression. He goes for it on fourth very often and gives his team the best chance to score points. But when they don't get it, I'm sure his defense loves him...

Getting back to Russell v. Quinn, we can debate Physical ability all day long, but when it comes to projecting the best NFL QB, physical skills are going to be nearly moot. They both have the arm to make all the throws, and they are both athletic in their own right. What's going to seperate them at the next level is their ability to make quick, accurate reads, their pocket presence, and their ability to manage the game. I don't expect JaMarcus Russell to struggle with any of the above necessarily, I just EXPECT Quinn to excel.

And periodically, Quinn makes an inexcusably inaccurate throw. But given his 60% completion percentage, I feel this is a very excusable flaw in this game. Russell's 67% as a junior is incredibly impressive and projects great things to come for the guy, but he's only started about 30 games compared to Quinn's 45. Both matured massively as juniors, and the fact that Russell came out instead of staying one more year to prove that he's truely deserving of the No. 1 pick (that his ridiculous 67% was no fluke) gives a big expierence advantage to Quinn.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

the fact that Russell came out instead of staying one more year to prove that he's truely deserving of the No. 1 pick (that his ridiculous 67% was no fluke) gives a big expierence advantage to Quinn.

Of course, from Russell's point of view, if the Raiders take him 1 overall and give him the big bucks, then he made a really good decision to come out.