Don Imus

[dmek25]

Originally Posted by saden1

I really don't understand why people think Sharpton and Jackson represent the entire black community. I mean, do Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell represent the entire white/christian community? Not all agree with their views. These people are opportunists and self-serving. They have their sycophant supporters which by and large don't include the majority of the community.

On a side note, what do you think should happen when police officers shoot an unarmed black man 50 times which has happened not once but twice? How many times has that happened to a white guy? I personally know of someone who is racist and a cop. Obviously that person can't be just.

My point is someone need to speak up, preferably someone respected and credible.

those 2 guys come running everytime the word racist is used. the both of them are nothing but media whores

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

I guess I am pessimist when it comes to race relations. Going back through the history of the world it is rather apparent that there will always be some degree of self-segregation. I think as long as there is segegation then raciscm will always exist. It may get better or more may get worse but it is never going to totally go away. That's why I think leaders in all communities need to look for ways to foster relations rather than segregate. It sems perfectly fine if African Americans want to self segregate. Hell they segregate within their own community depedning on tone of skin. But if whites do the same THEN it is racist. Problem is it is racist in both cases.

As for Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton. I have two rather distinct feelings about each of these men and neither is positive.

Al Sharpton- I think Al Sharpton actually believes he is looking out for and leading the black community. I believe his intentions at the heart are pretty noble. But I think he is at his heart a dishonest man and he may even be a racist man. He seems to think it is fine to attack people of other races without impunity and never offer apologies. His treatment of the Duke players is a good example. All the political and racial trappings aside we can probably all agree that had the situation been reversed. Say 3 black Georgetown basketball players had been accused by a white stripper there would be no way have been out front leading the public cruxifiction. In fact I think we could imagine him out front wondering about the alleged victim's character and yelling about all dubious evidence and such. In fact he would be livid and he would be right to be. But once the story started to shift and it became clearer and clearer that these guys were getting railed did he ever come out and say "Hey wait a minute. Maybe we should back off a little?" Did he come out yesterday and say "You know I was too quick to judge and I am sorry" No he has just moved on and forgot all about it. That was a chance to lead. That was a chance to say "Many in the black community, led by me, made a quick judgement of a couple white guys and we were wrong. I am sorry." That kind of statement fosters better relations. That kind of statement leads the black community in a positive way.

Jesse Jackson- As much as I don't like Sharpton I hate Jackson. He is a dishonest and divisive man. He has done more to hurt the African American race than anyone since the 60's. He is a self righteous, self centered, loatheful person who's only real goal is to improve his bank account to the deteriment of the very people he purportedly is trying to help. He makes more money as long as African Americans continue to struggle so he makes sure they continue to. I hate him. I don't hate many people. He is one.

What about Bill Cosby? I think he is a better leader for the black community because he is equally hard on both sides(some may think he is actually tougher on blacks). He realizes both sides have work to do.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by JoeRedskin

To some extent, I believe it will always be present. Not everyone is or will be a well-adjusted,educated person who can accept people different from them in appearance and culture as an equal. Rather, there will likely always be some element of society that views those of a different race as inherently "worse" than themselves and the cultural group they themselves belong to. By doing so, these people will have both a scapegoat and built in "feel good" factor (i.e. - no matter how crappy things are at least I'm not a half-puerto rican/half indian mutt).

How do we deal with continued rascism? Time. I firmly believe that eventually, in maybe 4-5 generations, racism will be looked on as an anachronism. I think that, in general, it IS being dealt with. Continued condemnation of overt racism creates an atmosphere where children are exposed, at least publicly, to the notion that racism is wrong and that all people are entitled to respect. Generations of ingrained racism are not going to change in 20 or 30 years. The strides we, as a country, have made since the 1960's are significant. Overt racism is simply not permitted in public settings or by any governmental or other public institution.



To say he lost it b/c of money and image is similar to saying that the Civil War was about "states' rights" and not slavery. Yes - sponsers dropped out and cost his employers money and the sponsers dropped out b/c they did not want to be associated with the "image" Imus now carried b/c that would cost them money. BUT underlying the sponser's actions was the understanding that the public would not want to purchase products from companies that condoned the racist remarks.

Make no mistake about it - the ultimate reason for Imus cancellation was the public recognition that racism is wrong.



Many of the "educated" people who are running our board rooms and businesses spent there first 20 or so years (say pre-1965ish) in a country that not only permitted racism but in a country where racism was the law of the land. Sure, they had to adapt to changing times, but on a very basic level some of these people were insulated from the popular tide that recognized the inherent unfairness and ultimate wrongness of racism.

In my opinion, it was only in the later 1980's and 90's that overt racism became truly unacceptable in the public forum. As the grandchildren and great grand children of these boomers grow up, fewer and fewer will be taught that racism, in any form is acceptable.

That is a good point because those in power might have grown up in environments of open racism. Perhaps time is the key factor.

But we can't just sit and watch the years go by and expect change because those same old people could be raising their kids with the same views. To me the challenge is for those kids to go against their parents, and realize what they are teaching them may be wrong. I think that is really hard, and I have had to do that in the past. My parents are good people and amazing parents, but they also have some views that stereotypical that I have had to challenge because I knew they were wrong.

And now think of the new rise of racism against those who are muslim/middle eastern or even brown skinned. Our generation is growing up dealing with that, and it our responsibility to make sure we dont raise our kids so they are racism in their future.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by hooskins

What about Bill Cosby? I think he is a better leader for the black community because he is equally hard on both sides(some may think he is actually tougher on blacks). He realizes both sides have work to do.

I'm not totally sure (so I could be speaking out of my ass), but it seems like there is a generational gap with regard to Cosby. People 50 and older tend to agree with Cosby and people under 50 tend to think he is a jerk.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

You want to hear about some racist sh*t, read this article. Apparently, the German Army hasn't learned its lesson.

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by saden1

I really don't understand why people think Sharpton and Jackson represent the entire black community. I mean, do Pat Robertson and Jerry Falwell represent the entire white/christian community? Not all agree with their views. These people are opportunists and self-serving. They have their sycophant supporters which by and large don't include the majority of the community.

On a side note, what do you think should happen when police officers shoot an unarmed black man 50 times which has happened not once but twice? How many times has that happened to a white guy? I personally know of someone who is racist and a cop. Obviously that person can't be just.

My point is someone need to speak up, preferably someone respected and credible.

I dont think Sharpton and Jackson are the only leaders, but they are a few and Sharpton especially who legitimately feel they are the leaders of the black community.

Who do you feel is currently a good leader for the black community?

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I'm not totally sure (so I could be speaking out of my ass), but it seems like there is a generational gap with regard to Cosby. People 50 and older tend to agree with Cosby and people under 50 tend to think he is a jerk.

Why because he is a leader that is harsh on his own community too? I mean sometimes he might push it, but I think it is good that he makes blacks accountable too. There are two races in this issues not just whites. Both sides have work to do IMO.

[RobH4413]

Don't know if anyone is familiar with "Soul Position" but they're a semi underground hip-hop duo (Blueprint and RJD2) from Columbus, Ohio that I've enjoyed for quite some time.

Groups like Soul Position give me hope for the hip-hop genre. They're great music with great lyrics. I was half paying attention doing some homework and I realized that the song "Hand-me-downs" really kind of applies to a lot of what's wrong with rap culture. Sorry if this is off topic, but I felt like with the latest nationwide debate that has stirred up, blueprint sheds a little clarity onto the situation.

Just thought I'd share the good words, and to anyone that is close minded to hip hop, check them out. (www.myspace.com/soulposition)

verse. 1 from (Hand-Me-Downs)

"Amidst The Positivity, I want to bring it back
But Rap now-a-days is by a bunch of ignorant cats
No young gifted and black
Just guns bitches and crack
I react by turning off BET and Sambo's telling me what blackness is supposed to be
Used to give us world news now it's all videos, replaced Tavis Smiley with reality shows

If you let the TV define what black is
you think ice and violence is all we think that matters
I guess this is what happens when rappers look up to thugs
And kids look up to rappers

To some of y'all if I don't talk about the gat enough
Or sell crack enough
I ain't black enough
But I rather be a pro at being myself
Than be an idiot trying to be somebody else, what"

vs. 2

" I'm at the bus stop with my bike
Been there for awhile
Mom's taught me how to catch this route when I was a child
-Another kid walks up freakin a black and mild
Fifteen same age, I learn shits wild
An older lady walks up greets us with a smile
Asks how we both doing and sits down
She knows what's it's like to grow up in the south
Civil Rights when the white's was hosing us down
I started thinking to myself that even though the time's were tougher
They still took timeout to speak to one another
But look at us, me and this young brother
Acting to proud to break down and speak to each other
So inside I felt ashamed
Not sure of how to but I wanna change
And as long as I'm alive than the fact remains
That it's never too late for us to break the chains"

[wolfeskins]

thats a pretty good song, i like it.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by hooskins

I dont think Sharpton and Jackson are the only leaders, but they are a few and Sharpton especially who legitimately feel they are the leaders of the black community.

Who do you feel is currently a good leader for the black community?

I don't feel there has to be a national figure. I think a lot of people in local communities are doing good things and they are the ones that really matter. There are a lot of good people in the NAACP who do good work. Real ministers in church do good work.

What the black community doesn't need is a loud mouth polarizing figure but we don't get to choose who appears on TV, the media does.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by saden1

I don't feel there has to be a national figure. I think a lot of people in local communities are doing good things and they are the ones that really matter. There are a lot of good people in the NAACP who do good work. Real ministers in church do good work.

What the black community doesn't need is a loud mouth polarizing figure but we don't get to choose who appears on TV, the media does.

I followed your last couple of posts on black leadership or lack thereof, and I couldn't agree more.

I think it's unfortunate that many think Sharpton and Jackson are the face and voice of the black community. It just so happens that the media finds a level of 'comfort' and familiarity with these two.

I don't think there is currently a clear-cut African-American voice or face, so to speak, for a few reasons. There are African-Americans in Congress and the Senate, but they represent a larger base than just blacks, so they have walk a fine line in what they say and "who they represent". So there's a political thread that runs through their motivation; Neither Sharpton nor Jackson hold a political office.

Another thing to consider is that the black community is more diverse, more educated, and in many ways more successful than, let's say, 30 years ago. So when one says "the black community", exactly what segment of the black community are they speaking to? It's not clear cut as it was during the 60s. And that's why Imus' comments and the people that have responded and called for his resignation is more complicated than just 'racist' comments.

Certainly blacks still face social ills, but they're not the same Civil Rights issues as we know them. And this is why any media attention that Sharpton and Jackson constantly get can be so damaging. They are by and large still considered and perceived to be Civil Rights activists, and whenever they speak on the behalf of blacks, it's seen as some type of injustice that's linked to and remind people of the the struggle of the 60s.

Their voices are a constant reminder of how things "used to be", where "we aren't". They really don't speak to the future or progress.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by RobH4413

Don't know if anyone is familiar with "Soul Position" but they're a semi underground hip-hop duo (Blueprint and RJD2) from Columbus, Ohio that I've enjoyed for quite some time.

G[/U]"

Yes yes and yes!

[100% PURE WHOOP ASS]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

100% PURE WHOOP ASS

I am going to ignore the basic idiocy of the content of your posts because they are so out of line that any reasonable person, black or white or whatever, would just shake their head and move on.

But I will ask you if you realize how poorly your statements are worded and how difficult they are to read with their incessant cursing, non-sensical elipticals and half sentences? Oh and how about every other word being misspelled? For your info, "alot" is actually A LOT. That's two words there buddy. And have ever you even heard of an apostrophe? I think next time you want to make a logical and sensical post on such an important and sensitive subject you should probably take twice as much time and at least try to put some effort into not sounding like a total dimwit. Then at least through all your stupid yelling, asanine whinning and totally ironic threatening you don't come off as completely ignorant.

Sure I'll do that......thanks for putting me in my place!

[100% PURE WHOOP ASS]

Originally Posted by FRPLG

100% PURE WHOOP ASS

I am going to ignore the basic idiocy of the content of your posts because they are so out of line that any reasonable person, black or white or whatever, would just shake their head and move on.

But I will ask you if you realize how poorly your statements are worded and how difficult they are to read with their incessant cursing, non-sensical elipticals and half sentences? Oh and how about every other word being misspelled? For your info, "alot" is actually A LOT. That's two words there buddy. And have ever you even heard of an apostrophe? I think next time you want to make a logical and sensical post on such an important and sensitive subject you should probably take twice as much time and at least try to put some effort into not sounding like a total dimwit. Then at least through all your stupid yelling, asanine whinning and totally ironic threatening you don't come off as completely ignorant.

They out of line huh? well like I said, I love to hear someone say those exact words, to a person of color face, oh yeah asshole i didnt know this was a sppeelling contest, I dont put up wut noone racism, ( did I spell that right) and of course you understand why any black person would be mad right, cause you suppor the cause!!!!!! CLEAR ENOUGH, and when you put up with that kind of shit most of your life, you get tired of it.......OF COURSE YOU UNDERSTAND......RIGHT BROTHER, screw you!

[SmootSmack]

That was the last straw 100%, you have a new username-0% New Posts. You've got obvious issues that we don't have the time nor desire to deal with on this board.

Congratulations, you will be TheMalcolmConnection's first official ban.