Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick

saden1 · 09-14-2007, 05:52 PM

This 1st round, a low first round, is definitely not enough and the fines are chump change. I am not happy with this slap on the wrist! It's cheating. It's a violation of the trust in the integrity of the game.

Good thing I'm not the Commissioner because Patriot fans will want to have me killed after I take away all their draft picks next year and their 1st round picks for the '09 and '10.

D'BOYZ · 09-14-2007, 05:53 PM

1.) Your assumption (and that's ultimately what it is) is that he has been doing this all along, or at least before. Unless there is evidence to show that, you can't base decisions on that. well we know they did it last year in the green bays game but ended with a warning and it's stupid his comments that they never use it for the game they were playing because then why tape the Green Bay game it's not like they're division rivals or were going to the Superbowl last year.

And if it did it last year and got caught and did it again you know he has been doing it for a time

2.) don't know about you, but 12% of my salary would hurt if I was docked that much. $500k is a huge amount & it will likely affect his personal finances. Not saying he'll move to the projects, but he'll definitely notice it as he pays bills & budgets his $ for a long while.

ok it will hurt us if they took 12% of our salary but if you new that if you did everything ok and reach your sales quota (playoffs) you are going to get not only that 12% back but another 24% additional would you be worried? now if it was let's say Crennel that did this and he'll probably will be without a job next year I'll be worried but C.mon we both know the patriot's are going to the playoffs and coaches and players get bonuses for those games.

Even if he doesn't make it at the end of the year Kraft can just add a bonus to his contract for X amount and you have no biggy. it's like when a multimillion company cheats and tells someone to be the fall guy do the time will put some millions in a fund when you come out you'll be a millionaire.

3.) As the NFL & its teams see it, a 1st round pick is worth a lot. See some recent trades to see what you get for late round picks. The fact that they have 2 1st rounders has nothing to do w/it, they made a deal to acquire an extra one as is their right (& had to give something for it too).

The point is that because they have 2 the penalty didn't had the impact that was intended they'll still pick in the first round

4.) Goodell has to be ready to dole out the same punishment to the next team or coach, if there is one. Just because its the Pats doesn't mean they should be punished any more or less.

Wade Wilson was the first coach to be punished for taking HGH for himself didn't use it to cheat and he got fined 200k and suspended 5 games which do you think is worse wade's or belichick? if there wasn't a case of a harder penalty for a lesser crime I would say they did the right thing but C'mon.

5.) I applaud you for believing that this is a serious offense, no argument there. I just believe Goodell set the bar fairly high & that others will take notice

I think he got cold feet we all expected higher just compare the difference on the aproach to cheating by the F1 and by the NFL it's huge New England came back winners again

hooskins · 09-14-2007, 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

Anyone who hasn't done so already should watch Bill Belichick's "apology" on ESPN.com. His arrogance is amazing. The guy is a grade-A a**hole. Between shoving photographers, cheating on his wife, bashing Mangini, refusing to shake Mangini's hand in the middle of the field, to spying, and to refusing to apologize for his actions, I can't believe anyone thinks otherwise.

I agree, he never apologizes and acknowledges he did something wrong.

Oakland Red · 09-14-2007, 07:49 PM

The Patriots would have not made it to one Super Bowl, let alone won one of those close games they played in them, without Belichick's use of spying to give the Patriots the huge competitive advantage they did, in my opinion.

In my view, this is on par with Pete Rose betting on the team he was managing, ethically. Actually it is a lot worse - NFL championships have gone to a team that didn't deserve them on three years. Probably nothing on that scale happened as a result of Pete Rose's actions.

Belichick made a serious mistake. He's a human being, and I for one forgive him, while at the same time believe that he should be given a lengthy suspension from coaching. This is an Enron approach to NFL team management.

As it is, I think circumstances will catch up with him and he will resign after this year or next.

saden1 · 09-14-2007, 08:26 PM

I would hope he's not so repugnant as to cheat in the SB. If he cheated in a SB that's monumental and totally unforgivable. It warrants immediate lifetime ban for Belichick and a lifetime of disgracer for everyone on his staff! I would also hope the Patriot organization is thrown into the gutter for a long long time for stealing SBs.

They won their SBs by 3 points every time (20-17 vs Rams, 32-29 vs Panthers, 24-21 vs Eagles) and stealing defensive signals would be an unbelievably huge advantage. Not to mention all the other AFC playoff games they won by close margins.

I doubt he cheated in the SB but then again I wouldn't surprised if he did.

Oakland Red · 09-14-2007, 08:55 PM

I was going to say lifetime ban for him, and yes I think you are right that this qualifies for a lifetime ban. While I never say a person isn't redeemable, what happened I think is inadmissible and cannot be allowed to happen again.

If it can be shown they did use spying in the Super Bowls, their titles should be revoked. I believe they did personally, but we can't know for certain.

Sheldon Brown of the Eagles finds that the Patriots' actions were fishy in that Super Bowl game:
Eagles try and recall anything fishy about Super Bowl loss to Patriots - NFL - Yahoo! Sports

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

I would hope he's not so repugnant as to cheat in the SB. If he cheated in a SB that's monumental and totally unforgivable. It warrants immediate lifetime ban for Belichick and a lifetime of disgracer for everyone on his staff! I would also hope the Patriot organization is thrown into the gutter for a long long time for stealing SBs.

They won their SBs by 3 points every time (20-17 vs Rams, 32-29 vs Panthers, 24-21 vs Eagles) and stealing defensive signals would be an unbelievably huge advantage. Not to mention all the other AFC playoff games they won by close margins.

I doubt he cheated in the SB but then again I wouldn't surprised if he did.

Cowell · 09-14-2007, 08:59 PM

I mean, I have my doubts, but you always wonder I mean if their cheating was that effective then wouldn't they have won by larger margins? Or maybe it's because they never could match up talent-wise.

Bill B · 09-14-2007, 09:16 PM

One interesting point - it seems that anytime someone is accussed or caught for cheating/devaluing the game it hurts if not completely eliminates their chances to be elected into the hall of fame - in Baseball Pete Rose will never get in and a lot of the players who are accused/found guilty of steriods are not getting in. My question is why Goddell just didn't come out and officially ban Belichick from the Hall of Fame?

SmootSmack · 09-14-2007, 09:39 PM

NicknacK89 · 09-14-2007, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mlmpetert

Some guys on ESPN the other day where saying that a fine doesnt really mean anything and that in the end it will only be passed onto the fans. Im all for the draft pick(s) though.

I was thinking they should forfited their win too, not nessacerly give the Jets a win but take the win away from the Pats.

Overall though the best decision Goodwell has made, imo

Goodell made the fine in a way that robert kraft cannot pay it for bellichek so he has to pay the 500k himself... serves him right that smug ass

saden1 · 09-15-2007, 12:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NicknacK89

Goodell made the fine in a way that robert kraft cannot pay it for bellichek so he has to pay the 500k himself... serves him right that smug ass

I doubt Goodell put language in the fine that prohibits Kraft from giving him a raise next season. Seriously, the fine is irrelevant and I do believe that Belichick next contract will compensate him for his 500K loss.

Goodell is insulting our intelligence.

saden1 · 09-15-2007, 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

That singer has talent!

Brady is a baller but knowing what the defense is bringing makes him an awesome baller.

Daryl Elite · 09-15-2007, 04:26 AM

Wow... that was a great video. The guy who made it is the same guy who was on MNF with his daughter singing about the Bengals...

sandtrapjack · 09-15-2007, 05:55 AM

For one, Belichick is NOT paying that 500,000. Everyone knows that Robert Kraft is writing that check. The guy gave his owner 3 Super Bowls in 4 years, and the owner will take care of his coach, trust me. And, yeah he will make that coinage up in ticket sales. Or he'll have them charge an extra 1.00 to 1.50 per beer at the stadium and he will make that up in no time.

Did anyone else notice that the Patriots have TWO first round picks in next years draft. The one they forfeited will probaby be a low round pick, but they also acquired the 49ers first rounder in 2008, which will probably be a bit higher. So they will still have a first round pick next April.

The Patriots and Belichick got away with this, with barely a light wrist slap. Goodell has not upheld his statement that coaches are held to a higher standard.

SmootSmack · 09-15-2007, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sandtrapjack

For one, Belichick is NOT paying that 500,000. Everyone knows that Robert Kraft is writing that check. The guy gave his owner 3 Super Bowls in 4 years, and the owner will take care of his coach, trust me. And, yeah he will make that coinage up in ticket sales. Or he'll have them charge an extra 1.00 to 1.50 per beer at the stadium and he will make that up in no time.

Did anyone else notice that the Patriots have TWO first round picks in next years draft. The one they forfeited will probaby be a low round pick, but they also acquired the 49ers first rounder in 2008, which will probably be a bit higher. So they will still have a first round pick next April.

The Patriots and Belichick got away with this, with barely a light wrist slap. Goodell has not upheld his statement that coaches are held to a higher standard.

Are the Patriots allowed to choose which draft pick they forfeit?

09-14-2007, 05:52 PM	#61
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 46 Posts: 10,069	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick This 1st round, a low first round, is definitely not enough and the fines are chump change. I am not happy with this slap on the wrist! It's cheating. It's a violation of the trust in the integrity of the game. Good thing I'm not the Commissioner because Patriot fans will want to have me killed after I take away all their draft picks next year and their 1st round picks for the '09 and '10. __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

09-14-2007, 05:53 PM	#62
D'BOYZ The Starter Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,363	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick 1.) Your assumption (and that's ultimately what it is) is that he has been doing this all along, or at least before. Unless there is evidence to show that, you can't base decisions on that. well we know they did it last year in the green bays game but ended with a warning and it's stupid his comments that they never use it for the game they were playing because then why tape the Green Bay game it's not like they're division rivals or were going to the Superbowl last year. And if it did it last year and got caught and did it again you know he has been doing it for a time 2.) don't know about you, but 12% of my salary would hurt if I was docked that much. $500k is a huge amount & it will likely affect his personal finances. Not saying he'll move to the projects, but he'll definitely notice it as he pays bills & budgets his $ for a long while. ok it will hurt us if they took 12% of our salary but if you new that if you did everything ok and reach your sales quota (playoffs) you are going to get not only that 12% back but another 24% additional would you be worried? now if it was let's say Crennel that did this and he'll probably will be without a job next year I'll be worried but C.mon we both know the patriot's are going to the playoffs and coaches and players get bonuses for those games. Even if he doesn't make it at the end of the year Kraft can just add a bonus to his contract for X amount and you have no biggy. it's like when a multimillion company cheats and tells someone to be the fall guy do the time will put some millions in a fund when you come out you'll be a millionaire. 3.) As the NFL & its teams see it, a 1st round pick is worth a lot. See some recent trades to see what you get for late round picks. The fact that they have 2 1st rounders has nothing to do w/it, they made a deal to acquire an extra one as is their right (& had to give something for it too). The point is that because they have 2 the penalty didn't had the impact that was intended they'll still pick in the first round 4.) Goodell has to be ready to dole out the same punishment to the next team or coach, if there is one. Just because its the Pats doesn't mean they should be punished any more or less. Wade Wilson was the first coach to be punished for taking HGH for himself didn't use it to cheat and he got fined 200k and suspended 5 games which do you think is worse wade's or belichick? if there wasn't a case of a harder penalty for a lesser crime I would say they did the right thing but C'mon. 5.) I applaud you for believing that this is a serious offense, no argument there. I just believe Goodell set the bar fairly high & that others will take notice I think he got cold feet we all expected higher just compare the difference on the aproach to cheating by the F1 and by the NFL it's huge New England came back winners again

09-14-2007, 07:49 PM	#64
Oakland Red Special Teams Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Oakland, Calif. Posts: 268	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick The Patriots would have not made it to one Super Bowl, let alone won one of those close games they played in them, without Belichick's use of spying to give the Patriots the huge competitive advantage they did, in my opinion. In my view, this is on par with Pete Rose betting on the team he was managing, ethically. Actually it is a lot worse - NFL championships have gone to a team that didn't deserve them on three years. Probably nothing on that scale happened as a result of Pete Rose's actions. Belichick made a serious mistake. He's a human being, and I for one forgive him, while at the same time believe that he should be given a lengthy suspension from coaching. This is an Enron approach to NFL team management. As it is, I think circumstances will catch up with him and he will resign after this year or next.

09-14-2007, 08:26 PM	#65
saden1 MVP Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Seattle Age: 46 Posts: 10,069	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick I would hope he's not so repugnant as to cheat in the SB. If he cheated in a SB that's monumental and totally unforgivable. It warrants immediate lifetime ban for Belichick and a lifetime of disgracer for everyone on his staff! I would also hope the Patriot organization is thrown into the gutter for a long long time for stealing SBs. They won their SBs by 3 points every time (20-17 vs Rams, 32-29 vs Panthers, 24-21 vs Eagles) and stealing defensive signals would be an unbelievably huge advantage. Not to mention all the other AFC playoff games they won by close margins. I doubt he cheated in the SB but then again I wouldn't surprised if he did. __________________ "The Redskins have always suffered from chronic organizational deformities under Snyder." -Jenkins

09-14-2007, 08:59 PM	#67
Cowell Impact Rookie Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Bluffton, South Carolina Posts: 803	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick I mean, I have my doubts, but you always wonder I mean if their cheating was that effective then wouldn't they have won by larger margins? Or maybe it's because they never could match up talent-wise.

09-14-2007, 09:16 PM	#68
Bill B Impact Rookie Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 721	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick One interesting point - it seems that anytime someone is accussed or caught for cheating/devaluing the game it hurts if not completely eliminates their chances to be elected into the hall of fame - in Baseball Pete Rose will never get in and a lot of the players who are accused/found guilty of steriods are not getting in. My question is why Goddell just didn't come out and officially ban Belichick from the Hall of Fame?

09-14-2007, 09:39 PM	#69
SmootSmack Uncle Phil Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 45,256	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick __________________ You're So Vain...You Probably Think This Sig Is About You

09-15-2007, 04:26 AM	#73
Daryl Elite Special Teams Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Alexandria, VA Age: 39 Posts: 100	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick Wow... that was a great video. The guy who made it is the same guy who was on MNF with his daughter singing about the Bengals...

09-15-2007, 05:55 AM	#74
sandtrapjack The Starter Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 1,994	Re: Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick For one, Belichick is NOT paying that 500,000. Everyone knows that Robert Kraft is writing that check. The guy gave his owner 3 Super Bowls in 4 years, and the owner will take care of his coach, trust me. And, yeah he will make that coinage up in ticket sales. Or he'll have them charge an extra 1.00 to 1.50 per beer at the stadium and he will make that up in no time. Did anyone else notice that the Patriots have TWO first round picks in next years draft. The one they forfeited will probaby be a low round pick, but they also acquired the 49ers first rounder in 2008, which will probably be a bit higher. So they will still have a first round pick next April. The Patriots and Belichick got away with this, with barely a light wrist slap. Goodell has not upheld his statement that coaches are held to a higher standard.

Patriots and Belichick Fined, Docked Draft Pick

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