McNabb says black QBs criticized more

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

But Rush' comments were wrong. He basically said that McNabb was overrated and the defense carried the team. That is just a ridicules statement. He got his team to 3 or 4 straight NFC Champ. games and a SB??? With average to below WR's ??? C'mon! If Jason Campbell does that we all would be kisssing his ass too.

McNabb has thrown waaaaaaay more TD's then Int's. Without question when he is healthy he is a very very good NFL qb. Just ask NFL defensive coordinators. I doubt they would say he is overrated.

I did not have a problem with Rush saying the media wants blacks to do well. If he feels that way fine. Just back it up with an accurate statement. In this case it was simply not accurate.

At the time Limbaugh made his comments, the Eagles were a 1-3 team in 2003 coming off a home conference championship loss the previous season. McNabb was already a three time pro bowler with virtually no production in those three seasons. Completion percentages of 58, 57.8, and 58.2 respectively, and yards per attempt of 5.9, 6.6, and 6.3 respectively. No serious weapons, maybe. But how can anyone in their right mind say that 4 weeks into a disappointing 2003 season for the Eagles, that McNabb wasn't overrated?

Since then, McNabb got his 2003 season on track and had an outstanding 2004, and appeared to prove Rush dead wrong. But then again, add two more seasons of data (plus this season), and 2004 begins to look more like an abberation than anything.

It's hard to complement the guy for his TD/INT ratio when the Eagles throw the ball so much around the goal line. While 31 other teams will pound it in, McNabb gets his TD totals inflated. Low INTs, fine, he's earned that title over many seasons, but don't compare it against TDs! Compare it against attempts.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

At the time Limbaugh made his comments, the Eagles were a 1-3 team in 2003 coming off a home conference championship loss the previous season. McNabb was already a three time pro bowler with virtually no production in those three seasons. Completion percentages of 58, 57.8, and 58.2 respectively, and yards per attempt of 5.9, 6.6, and 6.3 respectively. No serious weapons, maybe. But how can anyone in their right mind say that 4 weeks into a disappointing 2003 season for the Eagles, that McNabb wasn't overrated?

Since then, McNabb got his 2003 season on track and had an outstanding 2004, and appeared to prove Rush dead wrong. But then again, add two more seasons of data (plus this season), and 2004 begins to look more like an abberation than anything.

It's hard to complement the guy for his TD/INT ratio when the Eagles throw the ball so much around the goal line. While 31 other teams will pound it in, McNabb gets his TD totals inflated. Low INTs, fine, he's earned that title over many seasons, but don't compare it against TDs! Compare it against attempts.

Let me ask you something. Outside of T.O. who in the hell has the guy had as a decent NFL WR? Who has done more with less around him? So what if they pass alot. The coach has to have confidence in the QB to throw alot. Only certain QB's can handle that type of gameplan. Did you watch NE the other night? How many coaches have the confidence in their QB to run that type of gameplan? Maybe 4-5 QB's in the league can do that. Brady is one of them and so is McNabb when he is healthy.

Plus how many times has McNabb broken down a defense with his mobility? That is what makes him a very good QB. There are times when people are covered and it just breaks the back of a defense when he makes 1st down w/ his legs. It's not all about passing stats. We should know that from Mon. cause JC made some great plays running that kept drives alive.

Any football fan knows McNabb has the respect of the guys he plays against. Any football fan knows he has the respect of NFL defensive coordinators. So to say he is overrated is just a silly comment made by someone who doesn't know shit about football. He was 1-3 and that is how you judge the guy? You judge the whole picture, not 4 games. Simply ridicules. Rush got fired for his comments about McNabb. He probably should have gotten fired cause of his football IQ.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Let me ask you something. Outside of T.O. who in the hell has the guy had as a decent NFL WR? Who has done more with less around him? So what if they pass alot. The coach has to have confidence in the QB to throw alot. Only certain QB's can handle that type of gameplan. Did you watch NE the other night? How many coaches have the confidence in their QB to run that type of gameplan? Maybe 4-5 QB's in the league can do that. Brady is one of them and so is McNabb when he is healthy.

Plus how many times has McNabb broken down a defense with his mobility? That is what makes him a very good QB. There are times when people are covered and it just breaks the back of a defense when he makes 1st down w/ his legs. It's not all about passing stats. We should know that from Mon. cause JC made some great plays running that kept drives alive.

Any football fan knows McNabb has the respect of the guys he plays against. Any football fan knows he has the respect of NFL defensive coordinators. So to say he is overrated is just a silly comment made by someone who doesn't know shit about football. He was 1-3 and that is how you judge the guy? You judge the whole picture, not 4 games. Simply ridicules. Rush got fired for his comments about McNabb. He probably should have gotten fired cause of his football IQ.

QBs that have been more successful than McNabb with equal or less "weaponry":

Matt Hasselbeck
Steve McNair
Brett Favre (pre and post-Walker)
Rich Gannon
Trent Green
Tom Brady
Drew Brees (circa SD)
Chad Pennington (pre shoulder injury)

The argument for McNabb over these guys is that all of these guys for one reason or another have faded in or out of the national spotlight, but all of these guys were better in their prime than Donovan was, and they were so throwing to guys like Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason, Antonio Freeman, Charlie Garner, Troy Brown, Eric Parker, and Laverneus Coles. James Thrash in his prime was at least as competant as a majority of those guys.

Prior to 03, McNabb never had an elite target. However, by 2004 and 05, he had two. Since then, he's still had Westbrook, who has only gotten better and better since he came into the league.

Receiver play does not excuse average passing. Its an adjustment factor. If McNabb was a deserving 5 time pro bowler, he'd be able to consistently complete more than 60% in a QB friendly offense. By this point in his career its obvious he isn't good enough to do so.

Good for him with his mobility, but it hasn't helped his numbers a whole lot. Maybe it has, but if thats the case, then he is not a very good pocket passer at all. Also, if that is the case, then now that his mobility is limited this year, he won't be a serious threat at all.

Anyway, this is not to take away from what the guy has accomplished (which is quite a bit) in his 8 1/8 years in this league, only to take away from what he hasn't accomplished: become an elite QB.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

QBs that have been more successful than McNabb with equal or less "weaponry":

Matt Hasselbeck
Steve McNair
Brett Favre (pre and post-Walker)
Rich Gannon
Trent Green
Tom Brady
Drew Brees (circa SD)
Chad Pennington (pre shoulder injury)

The argument for McNabb over these guys is that all of these guys for one reason or another have faded in or out of the national spotlight, but all of these guys were better in their prime than Donovan was, and they were so throwing to guys like Darrell Jackson, Derrick Mason, Antonio Freeman, Charlie Garner, Troy Brown, Eric Parker, and Laverneus Coles. James Thrash in his prime was at least as competant as a majority of those guys.

Prior to 03, McNabb never had an elite target. However, by 2004 and 05, he had two. Since then, he's still had Westbrook, who has only gotten better and better since he came into the league.

Receiver play does not excuse average passing. Its an adjustment factor. If McNabb was a deserving 5 time pro bowler, he'd be able to consistently complete more than 60% in a QB friendly offense. By this point in his career its obvious he isn't good enough to do so.

Good for him with his mobility, but it hasn't helped his numbers a whole lot. Maybe it has, but if thats the case, then he is not a very good pocket passer at all. Also, if that is the case, then now that his mobility is limited this year, he won't be a serious threat at all.

Anyway, this is not to take away from what the guy has accomplished (which is quite a bit) in his 8 1/8 years in this league, only to take away from what he hasn't accomplished: become an elite QB.

I think your opinions are so hell bent on stats that it clouds your judgement a bit. Just because a guy isn't a 65% passer does mean he is not an elite QB.

I bet if you asked 32 NFL defensive coordinators who would you rather defend. A healthy McNabb or Pennington? 32 out of 32 would say Pennington. Yes Pennington complets 65% but he isn't as good of a QB. McNabb can beat you with his arm and legs.

In a west coast style of offense he should be about a 60% passer or above. He is probably around 57% or 58% for his career. That is good enough to get the job done. Accuracy is not his strength. He is not Carson Palmer. Playmaking is his strength. There is a difference. If you don't understand the difference then so be it.

I think Jason Campbell could probably end up being a McNabb type of QB. He might not ever be a 65% passer like Pennington. But he makes plays that Pennington or Trent Green will never ever make with his downfield arm and mobility. Do you understand the difference????

[70Chip]

McNabb presser with the Philly media, much of it related to this topic:

ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet

[hooskins]

Originally Posted by 70Chip

McNabb presser with the Philly media, much of it related to this topic:

ProFootballTalk.com -- The Best Pro Football Scoop on the Internet

Ok first of all I am not black but a minority and I have experienced racism and I do experience it everyday in small ways. But they key is when I feel it has gone too far or is offensive enough to present on such a large scale I do it in a much more appropriate way.

Just look at that recent presser, and how he is treating the media and those who are just asking questions. I dont really care what you think or believe. When you want to defend a strong position you have to do it properly or you will end up sounding like a complete dumbass, like McNabb.

Whenever they asked him questions, his answers were "Hey I don't know, you guys are the media you all know", and commonly putting in "you know" every two sentences. He sounds like a complete dumbass who is just full of shit. I could care less what the fuck he thinks and I am embarrassed that he is representing minorities in such a demeaning way.

Every time I read anything he has to say it just pisses me off even more. It is obvious this guy doesn't give a crap about anything but himself and when he is asked to properly explain his position he just gets upset.

As people have said the world of sports has integrated and has a much smaller impact of racism, so he needs to shut up and play. He is a freaking distraction to his organization and teammates. Next time, during the offseason do some research, learn some stats, and properly present yourself on this issue McNabb.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by hooskins

Ok first of all I am not black but a minority and I have experienced racism and I do experience it everyday in small ways. But they key is when I feel it has gone too far or is offensive enough to present on such a large scale I do it in a much more appropriate way.

Just look at that recent presser, and how he is treating the media and those who are just asking questions. I dont really care what you think or believe. When you want to defend a strong position you have to do it properly or you will end up sounding like a complete dumbass, like McNabb.

Whenever they asked him questions, his answers were "Hey I don't know, you guys are the media you all know", and commonly putting in "you know" every two sentences. He sounds like a complete dumbass who is just full of shit. I could care less what the fuck he thinks and I am embarrassed that he is representing minorities in such a demeaning way.

Every time I read anything he has to say it just pisses me off even more. It is obvious this guy doesn't give a crap about anything but himself and when he is asked to properly explain his position he just gets upset.

As people have said the world of sports has integrated and has a much smaller impact of racism, so he needs to shut up and play. He is a freaking distraction to his organization and teammates. Next time, during the offseason do some research, learn some stats, and properly present yourself on this issue McNabb.

Well said...thats how Ive perceived this exactly.

[Rajmahal33]

I think McNabb is right when he says that black QB's have to work harder to prove themselves, but he is wrong when he tries to use that as an excuse for why he gets more criticism.

The bottom line is that even though the NFL as well as many sports is a black majority league, there are certain stigmas for positions and which races should play them. The first part of donovan's statement was made with respect to this and he is right b/c im sure that black QB's have to work hard to shed the stigma that they are also talented passers. Earlier on this thread someone drew a parallel to White RB's which i think is true. Limbaugh got fired b/c he is a racist prick and even though he didn't bring up race directly he was hinting that Donovan's success was some sort of affirmative action enforced by the media. If donovan is an idiot (which i think he is) for making the additional comment that black QB's are criticized more then Rush is equally idiotic for making comments like he did. U can't argue it both ways!

I really don't know why bringing up Al Sharpton, Jesse Jackson, and the NAACP was necessary in any of these discussions. That, to me, sounds like ignorance by some members of this thread about other issues trying to poke its way into a benign discussion.

[Rajmahal33]

Also i have heard the argument that donovan's accomplishments as far as consecutive NFC championship appearances and others, don't matter anymore b/c in the NFL people have a very short term memory. Also people say that Philly is very passionate about their football and that is why they are impatient with donovan. What about Brett Favre? As I recall he went to two superbowls and won 1 (10+ years ago) and people in GB act like he was elected to a position for life. Brett rode the coattails of his defense and RB just as much as Donovan did, if not more and he competed in the abysmal NFC North (then the NFC central with guaranteed wins against the horrible Lions, Bears, and Bucs). GB is every bit as passionate about their football as Philly and if anything has more at stake about the teams success (since each taxpayer owns a portion of the team). Why didn't the media and the fans in GB call for Brett's hide when he threw 4 picks in that playoff game including an unnecessary hail mary with ample time on the clock? I think its partially due to the fact that Brett had the good ol' boy all american look going for him.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

Also i have heard the argument that donovan's accomplishments as far as consecutive NFC championship appearances and others, don't matter anymore b/c in the NFL people have a very short term memory. Also people say that Philly is very passionate about their football and that is why they are impatient with donovan. What about Brett Favre? As I recall he went to two superbowls and won 1 (10+ years ago) and people in GB act like he was elected to a position for life. Brett rode the coattails of his defense and RB just as much as Donovan did, if not more and he competed in the abysmal NFC North (then the NFC central with guaranteed wins against the horrible Lions, Bears, and Bucs). GB is every bit as passionate about their football as Philly and if anything has more at stake about the teams success (since each taxpayer owns a portion of the team). Why didn't the media and the fans in GB call for Brett's hide when he threw 4 picks in that playoff game including an unnecessary hail mary with ample time on the clock? I think its partially due to the fact that Brett had the good ol' boy all american look going for him.

There was a lot of anti-Favre backlash. There has been for a few years now.

[kjahorski]

I hope the Eagles never win a SB......no matter who their QB is....black, white, asian, Indian, Thai, whatever......Donovan's rant is useless....just go out and play....if you are afraid of or have to cry about criticism, then get a new job....

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by kjahorski

I hope the Eagles never win a SB......no matter who their QB is....black, white, asian, Indian, Thai, whatever......Donovan's rant is useless....just go out and play....if you are afraid of or have to cry about criticism, then get a new job....

Well said. Except for Indians. I mean, come on...

[/sarcasm]

(That one's for you, Smoot!)

[Hog1]

Originally Posted by Rajmahal33

Also i have heard the argument that donovan's accomplishments as far as consecutive NFC championship appearances and others, don't matter anymore b/c in the NFL people have a very short term memory. Also people say that Philly is very passionate about their football and that is why they are impatient with donovan. What about Brett Favre? As I recall he went to two superbowls and won 1 (10+ years ago) and people in GB act like he was elected to a position for life. Brett rode the coattails of his defense and RB just as much as Donovan did, if not more and he competed in the abysmal NFC North (then the NFC central with guaranteed wins against the horrible Lions, Bears, and Bucs). GB is every bit as passionate about their football as Philly and if anything has more at stake about the teams success (since each taxpayer owns a portion of the team). Why didn't the media and the fans in GB call for Brett's hide when he threw 4 picks in that playoff game including an unnecessary hail mary with ample time on the clock? I think its partially due to the fact that Brett had the good ol' boy all american look going for him.

Any direct comparison between the people, cities and cultures of GB, and Philly, is absurd.
Sooooo, you are saying that Brett is given a free ride because he is white?

[SouperMeister]

McNabb's intense scrutiny is really a product of playing in Philly, not his being black. I went to college in Philly in the 80's, and I vividly recall idiot Philly fans booing Mike Schmidt, perhaps the greatest ballplayer in the 100+ years of their franchise. In Philly, that just comes with the territory. That said, McNabb has labored an entire career with a series of stiffs at WR (T.O. aside), and managed to be one of the better QBs of this generation. Give him Peyton Manning's WRs and Donovan would have two rings by now.