McNabb says black QBs criticized more

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Longtimefan

When the question was put to Jason Campbell about McNabb's remarks, his answer was measured, and he chose his words carefully in crafting a response.

Absolutely. I was very impressed with Campbell's demeanor and the words he chose. He has very good poise on and off the field.

I knew the kid had talent, but he is impressing me double fold seemingly every week. We finally have the QB we've been looking for!

[jsarno]

oops, I forgot a white qb that is criticized worse than McNabb...Rex Grossman.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

So the prejudice against black QBs is a fiction, but the prejudice against white BBllers is real?

I happen to think that both prejudices are real. I don't know how pervasive such thoughts are, especially at the pro level, but I do believe they exist.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

LOL...that is a racist comment, and blatently untrue.
I have known SEVERAL GREAT white players...shoot lights out...much better than their black counterparts, but because they were not black, they didn't start...or even make the team in some cases.

My buddy, Ken Jones, lived in Fort Myers. He was the #1 player in the state of Florida back in the early 90's in High School. No college team offered him a scholarship.
Why is it OK to accept racism in certain cases, but not others?

This is off the point, and I apologize for it. But what I mentioned is real, what McNabb mentions is imagined. (at least now it is imagined...I agree that it took a lot to get the black QB in the game...Moon and Williams were trailblazers.)

I hope you're not serious. So you think the NBA and NFL teams are discriminating against white players? Black is the new white? What you're implying is as absurd as McNabb's comments. It's unfortunate that you both believe in the legitimacy of what you believe to be true.

I'm afraid your buddy had deficiencies that perhaps you and the people around him didn't see or were not willing to see. There are so many factor in assessing a player it's not even funny. LaVar is a perfect example.

I'll reiterate what I've said on this top in the past...In sports it's all about winning and no team, no f'ing team, is willing to sacrifice W's for some petty racist shit. Period!

[BrudLee]

Originally Posted by kjahorski

I hope the Eagles never win a SB......no matter who their QB is....black, white, asian, Indian, Thai, whatever......Donovan's rant is useless....just go out and play....if you are afraid of or have to cry about criticism, then get a new job....

Well said. Except for Indians. I mean, come on...

[/sarcasm]

(That one's for you, Smoot!)

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by saden1

I hope you're not serious. So you think the NBA and NFL teams are discriminating against white players? Black is the new white? What you're implying is as absurd as McNabb's comments. It's unfortunate that you both believe in the legitimacy of what you believe to be true.

When did I say that NFL teams are discriminating against white people? I didn't say that, nor did I insinuate that. Curious as to how you even came to that conclusion.

I'm afraid your buddy had deficiencies that perhaps you and the people around him didn't see or were not willing to see. There are so many factor in assessing a player it's not even funny. LaVar is a perfect example.

Well, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. He was ranked #1 in the STATE. Pretty darn convincing if you ask me. Maybe I wasn't specific enough cause you used Lavar as an example, but he was ranked #1 in the state as a basketball player. For as much as people would like to think that racism doesn't exist in basketball, it's by far the most racist sport in the world. Look at the guy here that said that black basketball players are just better than white players...and oddly enough no one cared to say anything about it. It's simply not true. White people don't get the opportunity that black people do to play basketball, and it starts in high school. You can't tell me that there aren't white people out there that can play. How did the 86 celtics win it all with Bird, McHale, Ainge, and Walton (all white)?

I'll reiterate what I've said on this top in the past...In sports it's all about winning and no team, no f'ing team, is willing to sacrifice W's for some petty racist shit. Period!

I 100% agree with you.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

So the prejudice against black QBs is a fiction, but the prejudice against white BBllers is real?

Sort of. I used to be true, but it is no longer. However, the prejudice against a SCRAMBLING qb is still real. It has nothing to do with race, but everyone sees that a true scrambling QB has never won the super bowl. Problem is, every scrambling Qb happens to be black. Teams feel pocket passers = super bowls. I tend to agree. A black pocket passer is hard to find.
ps- Campbell is a pocket passer.

I happen to think that both prejudices are real. I don't know how pervasive such thoughts are, especially at the pro level, but I do believe they exist.

Even Young and Campbell made comments that they are not. It used to be there, but it is no longer there. It's all about who the teams feel will win. If they felt that Warren Moon could come out of retirement to win a super bowl, they'd pay him to do it. It's that simple.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by jsarno

When did I say that NFL teams are discriminating against white people? I didn't say that, nor did I insinuate that. Curious as to how you even came to that conclusion.


Well, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. He was ranked #1 in the STATE. Pretty darn convincing if you ask me. Maybe I wasn't specific enough cause you used Lavar as an example, but he was ranked #1 in the state as a basketball player. For as much as people would like to think that racism doesn't exist in basketball, it's by far the most racist sport in the world. Look at the guy here that said that black basketball players are just better than white players...and oddly enough no one cared to say anything about it. It's simply not true. White people don't get the opportunity that black people do to play basketball, and it starts in high school. You can't tell me that there aren't white people out there that can play. How did the 86 celtics win it all with Bird, McHale, Ainge, and Walton (all white)?


I 100% agree with you.

Wow I dont even know why I am going to bother with this, but I feel compelled so here it gos.

First of all no one said white people cant play basketball, someone said earlier that the reason there arent more white players is that the players that are better then them that made it to the NBA happen to be black.

Second of all if you admit that no team would sacrifice wins for racial prejudice, under that same line of reasoning it can be deduced that if there were white players with the same ability as their black counterparts in the NBA, that there would be someone taking these undervalued players and creating a dynasty out of them. Because under your line of reasoning white players are discriminated against and undervalued then a team could afford to pick up all of them and create an allstar team made of these players and sustain the team for a long time due to the small contracts they would have to pay them...Sounds foolproof, I say you go and pitch this idea to an owner of an NBA team, you'll be a legend!

The fact is that the NBA gathers all the best players it can find no matter what race they are or what country they come from. You really think that the NBA scouts would go out of their way to recruit people from Russia or China or whatever the fu*% else small hole in the wall country and at the same time neglect to recruit some of the best players from america because they think "white people can't jump?"

This is shear ignorance!

Just because you have a friend that you expected to make the pros and he wasn't given the respect YOU THINK he deserved does not prove that their is an over-arching bias against white basketball players.

Just as in this McNabb situation, I am sure there are some ignorant black folk that will scoff at a white basketball player on the black top, but overall any player worthy of recognition is given it, and given an opportunity no matter what their race is.

[WillH]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Sort of. I used to be true, but it is no longer. However, the prejudice against a SCRAMBLING qb is still real. It has nothing to do with race, but everyone sees that a true scrambling QB has never won the super bowl. Problem is, every scrambling Qb happens to be black. Teams feel pocket passers = super bowls. I tend to agree. A black pocket passer is hard to find.
ps- Campbell is a pocket passer.



Even Young and Campbell made comments that they are not. It used to be there, but it is no longer there. It's all about who the teams feel will win. If they felt that Warren Moon could come out of retirement to win a super bowl, they'd pay him to do it. It's that simple.

Wrong again, What about Jake the Snake...and I am sure there are others. Your whole line of argument is based on your own bias. I will agree that scrambling qbs dont seem to be as successful, but to stereotype black qbs as scramblers and scrambling qbs as black is just racist...plain and simple. Furthermore, most qb's that have a tendency to scramble have readjusted their game, especially in the past 4-5 years. Even McNabb was coached to stay in the pocket more, and believe it was a successful adjustment.

Anyhow my point is, this has NOTHING to do with this topic, You are simply displaying your ignorance by automatically bringing up the stereotype when discussing black qb's.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

I don't think that many coaches consciously or unconsciously discriminate against white basketball players or black quarterbacks. I think that 99.9% of teams, particularly pro teams, but their best players out on the field or at the very least attempt to do so without regard to race. That said, I find it surprising that people don't think that there are some people, however few and far between, who do indeed harbor stereotypes about race and sports and allow such stereotypes to, intentionally or not, affect who they put on the field.

In any event, please make every attempt to discuss this topic with civility. If you cannot do so, please do not post. This is not in response to any one post, nor is it directed towards any single person; it is directed towards everyone.

[saden1]

Originally Posted by jsarno

When did I say that NFL teams are discriminating against white people? I didn't say that, nor did I insinuate that. Curious as to how you even came to that conclusion.

When you say white players are discriminated against that's exactly what you're saying. Not only that but you say that from HS all the way up there is systematic discrimination and that they simply don't get the chance they deserve. I'm not putting words in to your mouth here. It's plain, simple and quite clear.

Originally Posted by jsarno

Well, I'm afraid you couldn't be more wrong. He was ranked #1 in the STATE. Pretty darn convincing if you ask me. Maybe I wasn't specific enough cause you used Lavar as an example, but he was ranked #1 in the state as a basketball player. For as much as people would like to think that racism doesn't exist in basketball, it's by far the most racist sport in the world. Look at the guy here that said that black basketball players are just better than white players...and oddly enough no one cared to say anything about it. It's simply not true. White people don't get the opportunity that black people do to play basketball, and it starts in high school. You can't tell me that there aren't white people out there that can play. How did the 86 celtics win it all with Bird, McHale, Ainge, and Walton (all white)?

Ranked #1 eh? Lets do the simple math and stats...50 states in the country...that's 50 #1 players in the country...there are roughly 300 schools in the country and you're telling me not a single one of them wanted him? Not even a Division III school?

I'm curious as to who you think is keeping the white man down from making it big in bball? Maybe those with authority are flawed in their assessment of how good black, european and south american bball players are? You obviously have beef with the fact that NBA doesn't have enough white players so let's hear why that is and what you propose to alleviate the plight of white bball players.


p.s. It's really hard for me to take you seriously when I consider the fact that the majority of high school, collegiate and professional coaches are white.

[Darrell_Green_28]

lets cut the racist crap out. its bad enough it still exists. theres a lot of things i could say but prefer not to stoop that low. there are good blacks, whites, yellows, greens, etc... as well as there a bad blacks , whites , yellows, greens, etc.. jeesh lets get over it. i dont agree with anyone pulling the racist thing out just to use it as an excuse. leave that shit in the past.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by WillH

First of all no one said white people cant play basketball, someone said earlier that the reason there arent more white players is that the players that are better then them that made it to the NBA happen to be black.

Same difference. Funny...there are many white people in the HOF, and were around for many years...then they just disappeared???? Do you realize how foolish you sound with this?

Second of all if you admit that no team would sacrifice wins for racial prejudice, under that same line of reasoning it can be deduced that if there were white players with the same ability as their black counterparts in the NBA, that there would be someone taking these undervalued players and creating a dynasty out of them. Because under your line of reasoning white players are discriminated against and undervalued then a team could afford to pick up all of them and create an allstar team made of these players and sustain the team for a long time due to the small contracts they would have to pay them...Sounds foolproof, I say you go and pitch this idea to an owner of an NBA team, you'll be a legend!

No...what you are failing to realize that when you are racist, you BELEIVE what you are thinking. So if you BELEIVE white people are not as good as black people, those white people don't get a chance. Therefore they select a different career.
So are you telling me black people aren't as smart as white people? If this is untrue (and I beleive it to be untrue) then why do colleges have a "quota" for black people? It's because they supposedly weren't given the opportunity to learn like the white people have. Just like the white people don't get the same opportunities as black people do.

The fact is that the NBA gathers all the best players it can find no matter what race they are or what country they come from. You really think that the NBA scouts would go out of their way to recruit people from Russia or China or whatever the fu*% else small hole in the wall country and at the same time neglect to recruit some of the best players from america because they think "white people can't jump?"

YES. Just like baseball does more recruiting in latin america than in small towns in the USA.
But again, if the white people aren't given the opportunity, why bother?

This is shear ignorance!

Yes it is...you have been quite ignorant in thinking basketball is not racist. You chalk it up to "they are better". Well who is to say those white qb's aren't better? Come on man...racism is racism. Just because a person is black does not make him a better athlete.

Just because you have a friend that you expected to make the pros and he wasn't given the respect YOU THINK he deserved does not prove that their is an over-arching bias against white basketball players.

How many times do I have to correct people? I didn't say anything about the pros, I said he was the #1 high school player in Florida and was not offered a scholoarship anywhere. This is not up for debate, this is fact...how do you explain that? What if a black person was ranked #1 in the state...how many colleges do you think would be drooling over him? I m done with this conversation because it is going no where. Unfortunately you can't take racism out of certain people. I feel for you.

Just as in this McNabb situation, I am sure there are some ignorant black folk that will scoff at a white basketball player on the black top, but overall any player worthy of recognition is given it, and given an opportunity no matter what their race is.

Not in basketball...there have been thousands of documented cases.

Back to the point...McNabb is not being scrutinized due to race...end of story.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by Darrell_Green_28

lets cut the racist crap out. its bad enough it still exists. theres a lot of things i could say but prefer not to stoop that low. there are good blacks, whites, yellows, greens, etc... as well as there a bad blacks , whites , yellows, greens, etc.. jeesh lets get over it. i dont agree with anyone pulling the racist thing out just to use it as an excuse. leave that shit in the past.

I agree...good post.

[WillH]

Sorry, I may have been out of line. I will give up on this topic after this post because obviously Im a bit touchy on this subject. It just bothers me that there is still such blatant ignorance in this country, from both sides of the spectrum. It is a very strong desire of mine to see progress made in bridging the racial divide, but it seems there are so many people intent on keeping it the way it is. McNabb has seen alot of it. He has gotten it from both sides of the spectrum, from both whites and blacks, so I see what he is talking about. But I would have been much more impressed if he hadn't made himself out to be a victim (I already thought he was a victim in prior incidences, I didn't need to hear him complain), and had said that it was something that he regretted to have to encounter because of what it meant about that state of America. Rather he seemed to care more about what it meant for himself and his own career. Maybe there are some biases in sports that need to be resolved, but it seems to me that professional sports is a pretty good gig despite the criticism you are undoubtedly going to receive. Complaining about this crap is just not what is important in racial relations. I think it is more important to address the fact that white and black people seem to still be hell bent on distancing themselves from one another. In Jena, LA a tree was planted by two young men, one white and one black, as a symbol of unity. Many years later a group of white students and a group of black students fought over which group got to sit under the tree, this fight degraded into blatant hateful acts of racism. The tree was taken down. That is so sad to me. Rather then learning to hangout together and share the tree that their ancestors planted as a symbol of unity, they let the dream die. This dream IS dieing. There may be progress in racial equality, and some progress has been made in racial relations, but we still feel a need to segregate ourselves from one another. These are the things we should be concerned about. And frankly comments that engender ideas of divisiveness are a step in the wrong direction. And in some ways I think McNabb (and others) have leaned in that direction. The direction taken in racial relations should be toward bringing us closer together not towards pointing fingers at one another and creating more of a gap. Maybe what Mcnabb said wasn't blatantly wrong or damaging to anything other then his own career and public image, but it definitely wasn't in the vein of what the early civil rights activists were trying to accomplish. Therefore, I have lost a little respect for him (As I used to hold him in high regard). As for this thread, I spent way too much energy and emotion discussing something so trivial, but I guess it is because I hold race relations as of incredible importance, and to see others miss the point so badly makes me feel compelled to interject. I hope I haven't offended anyone, and I am sorry for getting all up in arms (sorry especially to you jsarno, it wasn't my place to judge, though I think you are completely misguided), sometimes passion can make us act like asses.