08' Mercedes C-Class v.s. '08 Infiniti G35 Sedan

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by jsarno

A good salesman will tell you what you want to hear, while they may be good people, they are ruthless when dealing with them because it is their finnacial well being you are messing with. All sales people have to be underhanded at some point to be effective. It's a shame, but it's true. Money does that to people.

you're dead wrong and you're stereotyping. there are salesmen who will honestly try to meet a customers needs and make sure that their experience is pleasant. these salespeople believe they will actually earn a commission instead of tricking someone into paying one.

you've got a very bleak outlook on things.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

you're dead wrong and you're stereotyping. there are salesmen who will honestly try to meet a customers needs and make sure that their experience is pleasant. these salespeople believe they will actually earn a commission instead of tricking someone into paying one.

you've got a very bleak outlook on things.

It really is a shame that you think that way. I am not talking about something that is foriegn, in fact, if you do a simple google search about dealer cost you come up with sites like these:
Find Out MSRP, Invoice Price, And The Actual Price Of Your Desired Car, Step Three of NewCarInsider.com

Look at this quote:
Dealer Holdback
About 2% to 5% of MSRP cost is held back by the manufacturer of the car, and will be given to the dealer when the dealer actually sells the car. This amount does not depend on how many cars the dealer sells.

Action: Subtract this amount from the Invoice Price.

Hmmmmm, so assume a 25k car, that's $500 to $1250.

Here's another quote:
Factory To Dealer Cash
About $300 to $2000 per car is given back to the dealer to sell slow selling cars. (If the manufacturer has not made this factory rebate known to the public, the car dealers are not required to pass you this saving.)

Action: If the dealer has over 30 cars similar to the ones you are seeking to purchase, and these cars have been sitting on the lot for over 25 days, there may be manufacturer incentives that drive the Actual Cost down. Ask the dealer about his dealership's quantity of cars your seek, and factor in this information into calculating the Actual Car Cost.

That's already $1000-$3000, and that's not all the incentives yet.
SO if you actually know what you're talking about, why did all the car dealerships sell their cars at UNDER invoices, often times $500 under if invoice is what they paid? What marketing genius thought of selling their product for less than what they pay for?

You can attack me all you want sir, but like I said, there are thousands of sites YOU CAN SEARCH that will tell you exactly what I am telling you. You were a salesman, you likely did not see the truth.

ps- if you have ever sold a vehicle at MSRP, then you skrewed someone and you lied to me. Salesmen are out for themselves and you know it. How can they not be? It's their salary...the more they squeeze out of me, the more that goes in their pockets.
Shit, you need to take sales CLASSES on how to learn to combat people's concerns and pitches. What do you think those classes are for? To be as nice as possible to clients?

I didn't say a salesman won't try to meet a customer's needs...of course they will need to (ie: power windows, DVD player etc) because if they don't, then it's no sale, but when it comes to talking turkey, the salesman will try to squeeze every penny out of you. How you can deny that is laughable.

I'm sure you're right about some sales people being honest and caring...those are the ones that can't take doing the job and quit eventually...or not hit quota and quit.

So please don't give me your speech, I proved with a simple link that you are wrong, and there are plenty more where that came from. Maybe it's cause your are too close to the situation to see the truth...I don't know, but do a little research buddy, you might be enlightened.

In the end, there is MSRP, invoice, and then what the dealer actually pays. This is common knowledge, and easily found.

[EternalEnigma21]

wow.. if you read my posts, I actually spell out all of what is on these websites. holdback avg.s 2%, wholesale financial reserve 1% sometimes there's dealer cash etc...

what's pissing me off is that you are completely generalizing people based on a profession, and attacking my credibility based on the fact that you shouldn't trust me because I sold cars, when everything I'm saying is absolutely true, then you post a website that basically says the same thing I'm saying... how does that prove me wrong?

On top of that Ladybrave is looking at a 25k accord and you're telling her the dealer buys them for around 3k under invoice. You are mistaken and adamantly misguiding expectations based on your unwarranted distrust.

Personally I'm done wasting time and cyber-space on this issue, as it has become more of a private issue, not a public discussion, and I apologize to all that have been exposed to a drawn out debate that you had no stake in, but I did feel a need to defend myself, as my character was attacked undeservingly.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

wow.. if you read my posts, I actually spell out all of what is on these websites. holdback avg.s 2%, wholesale financial reserve 1% sometimes there's dealer cash etc...

Then how can you imply that invoice is what the dealer actually pays? It is not, even you are admitting it. So why did we go through all this if you actually do know invoice is not what the dealer pays?

what's pissing me off is that you are completely generalizing people based on a profession, and attacking my credibility based on the fact that you shouldn't trust me because I sold cars, when everything I'm saying is absolutely true, then you post a website that basically says the same thing I'm saying... how does that prove me wrong?

While I do generalize a profession (ps- noted that you did not saying anything in response to my "have you ever sold a car at MSRP") it is justifiable. What you are not getting is I am not condemning them to hell, they are trying to make a living. You are trying to justify your (once) occupation, when there is no need to.
Have you ever seen a salesman tell THEIR customer, "no, you don't want to pay that much, I can sell it to you for so much less than that"???? Of course not.
That being said, I NEVER attacked you. You attacked me cause you took my comments as a personal attack, but I never personally attacked you like you did me.

On top of that Ladybrave is looking at a 25k accord and you're telling her the dealer buys them for around 3k under invoice. You are mistaken and adamantly misguiding expectations based on your unwarranted distrust.

Well, Like I said, I dealt mainly with GM vehicles, and it is true in those cases. Maybe the honda's have a smaller kick back and other issues, but I doubt less than 2k when it's all tallied. I told her to ask for the vehicle $500-$750 over invoice. That is a good deal for both her and the dealership.

Personally I'm done wasting time and cyber-space on this issue, as it has become more of a private issue, not a public discussion, and I apologize to all that have been exposed to a drawn out debate that you had no stake in, but I did feel a need to defend myself, as my character was attacked undeservingly.

It only became personal when you attacked me. I was civil, and I was informative. You threw in personal attacks to justify your comments and feelings. I never once attacked your character, and if you felt that by association to salesmen I attacked you, you need to re read my posts.
You are trying to tell people that salesmen aren't out to make money...of COURSE they are. There is also no doubt that selling anything at MSRP is skrewing someone. You can think otherwise, that's your choice. That's what debate is all about.
In short, learn how to debate without taking things personally when YOU PERSONALLY are not being attacked.

[Monksdown]

They started by building great roads, and then they focus'd on automobiles. Stick with the Germans on some things, not everything. But with luxury auto's, stick with the innovative pros.