Lloyd Comments to the Junks

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

He will be in New England, or Indianapolis catching TD's, his mouth is what has kept him from endearing himself to Gibbs, I just don't think Gibbs wants anything to do with him at this point, and I wouldn't blame it all on Lloyd, I think if they focused him in the passing game he would be very productive, but I get the feeling Gibbs would rather get that production from others. I get the feeling he shot his mouth off last year about our passing game or lack there of, which probably ticked Gibbs off, so as long as you have WR's like ARL, and Moss, there's no need to throw Lloyd into the game plan, although with the lack of ability Moss has shown to catch a simple pass this season Gibbs has to be close to increasing Lloyds playing time. Mcardell is a nice addition but he's not a #2, same goes for Thrash, Lloyd is if used properly. There is I believe a real pissing match going on right now between Gibbs and Lloyd and Lloyd ain't winning that one, at least not in DC.

Why would NE or Indy want a crappy receicer with an attitude problem?

They build their teams on undervalued talent, not overvalued crap.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Why would NE or Indy want a crappy receicer with an attitude problem?

They build their teams on undervalued talent, not overvalued crap.

LOL! Calling Lloyd overvalued crap is a compliment in my book.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Why would NE or Indy want a crappy receiver with an attitude problem?

They build their teams on undervalued talent, not overvalued crap.

Take a look, did they go after Moss? Yes! Why because when you have an offense that can utilize your talents it tends to keep players in check, there's not a whole lot to have an attitude about, funny the only thing anyone heard from Moss this season is TD.

Lloyd wasnt a lousy WR before he came to us, and he looks to be in the best shape of his life at this point. Fans just can't admit that it may not always be the player it could very well be the coaching and the players around them, or in other words the team that they are so endeared to!

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by offiss

Lloyd wasnt a lousy WR before he came to us, and he looks to be in the best shape of his life at this point. Fans just can't admit that it may not always be the player it could very well be the coaching and the players around them, or in other words the team that they are so endeared to!

Exactly, because all of us fans just imagined him loafing after an interception that he could have prevented. It's not like he admitted to it or anything.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by offiss

Lloyd wasnt a lousy WR before he came to us, and he looks to be in the best shape of his life at this point. Fans just can't admit that it may not always be the player it could very well be the coaching and the players around them, or in other words the team that they are so endeared to!

Maybe Lloyd wasn't "lousy," but he was never that great. Put his numbers up against any #1 WR in the league and he pales in comparison. His production at San Francisco and his production here puts him squarely as a #2, and even there he doesn't match up with guys like Reggie Wayne, TJ Houshmandzadeh or any of a number of other #2 WRs in the league.

He's athletic and probably has great potential, but his stats through his first four seasons in the NFL simply do not bear out that he's much of anything at this point. His highest total in a season is 733 yards and hasn't caught more than six TDs in a season. It's not like he had a real standout season at one point and we're all hoping he will reach that level again. He's never BEEN at the level before.

Hell, through his first four years Lloyd has 13 TDs. There are a number of WRs in this league who put up those numbers in a single season, not four. If he wants to get paid like a bigshot WR, and talk like a bigshot WR, he better start putting up some stats or just shut his mouth and take a much smaller paycheck.

Anyone arguing that Lloyd is a top-flight WR and is being held back by coaches, trainers, bad circumstances, a poor diet, the janitor who looked askance at him or his homophobia is simply basing it on conjecture and hope because his statistical production proves otherwise.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Maybe Lloyd wasn't "lousy," but he was never that great. Put his numbers up against any #1 WR in the league and he pales in comparison. His production at San Francisco and his production here puts him squarely as a #2, and even there he doesn't match up with guys like Reggie Wayne, TJ Houshmandzadeh or any of a number of other #2 WRs in the league.

He's athletic and probably has great potential, but his stats through his first four seasons in the NFL simply do not bear out that he's much of anything at this point. His highest total in a season is 733 yards and hasn't caught more than six TDs in a season. It's not like he had a real standout season at one point and we're all hoping he will reach that level again. He's never BEEN at the level before.

Hell, through his first four years Lloyd has 13 TDs. There are a number of WRs in this league who put up those numbers in a single season, not four. If he wants to get paid like a bigshot WR, and talk like a bigshot WR, he better start putting up some stats or just shut his mouth and take a much smaller paycheck.

Anyone arguing that Lloyd is a top-flight WR and is being held back by coaches, trainers, bad circumstances, a poor diet, the janitor who looked askance at him or his homophobia is simply basing it on conjecture and hope because his statistical production proves otherwise.

You site receivers who have all pro QB's, something Lloyd has not come close to, what were Randy Moss's stats last season without a QB? Oakland said he had a chronic knee problem and is not the WR he used to be, I guess they were right he's better than he used to be, the question is why? Could it be the team and the QB? So if there is nothing there in Lloyd why did Gibbs have to have this guy? Sorry but playing in an inept system like San fran, and then coming over to us only to have the likes of Brunell throwing to him doesn't make him a bust, every time I see the guy he's beating his man down field. If you want to say he doesn't fit in, then fine, because that pretty much seems to be whats going on here, but he can't throw the ball to himself.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by offiss

You site receivers who have all pro QB's, something Lloyd has not come close to, what were Randy Moss's stats last season without a QB? Oakland said he had a chronic knee problem and is not the WR he used to be, I guess they were right he's better than he used to be, the question is why? Could it be the team and the QB? So if there is nothing there in Lloyd why did Gibbs have to have this guy? Sorry but playing in an inept system like San fran, and then coming over to us only to have the likes of Brunell throwing to him doesn't make him a bust, every time I see the guy he's beating his man down field. If you want to say he doesn't fit in, then fine, because that pretty much seems to be whats going on here, but he can't throw the ball to himself.

The stats completely disprove your point about Randy Moss.

In 29 games with Oakland, Moss had 102 catches for 1,558 yards and 11 TDs.

In 45 games with San Francisco, Lloyd had 105 catches for 1,510 yards and 13 TDs.

In other words, with equally poor QBs in Oakland and San Francisco during those years, Moss's worst numbers of his career beat out Lloyd's best production of his career.

Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald having been catching passes from arguably some of the worst QBs in the NFL down in Arizona, and their worst season numbers are better than Lloyd's best. Lloyd simply does not stack up against any good #1 or even #2 WR in this league, even when you compare virtually identical situations with bad teams and bad QBs. I could see an argument for not comparing him to Marvin Harrison, but you can pick plenty of WRs in the NFL who are catching passes from QBs far worse than Brunell and/or Campbell yet still putting up numbers that shame Brandon Lloyd.

There is simply no factual, statistically supported basis for believing Lloyd is a good WR. If you want to sit here and raise vague, baseless questions about why Gibbs did what he did, and maybe it's the system and maybe it's the QB and maybe it's a bad pair of shoes or there's just someone out to get Lloyd, I suppose we could do that all day.

Anyone can sit around and raise questions. If you believe that Lloyd is a good receiver then back it up with something other than pure conjecture.

[offiss]

Originally Posted by mheisig

The stats completely disprove your point about Randy Moss.

In 29 games with Oakland, Moss had 102 catches for 1,558 yards and 11 TDs.

In 45 games with San Francisco, Lloyd had 105 catches for 1,510 yards and 13 TDs.

In other words, with equally poor QBs in Oakland and San Francisco during those years, Moss's worst numbers of his career beat out Lloyd's best production of his career.

Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald having been catching passes from arguably some of the worst QBs in the NFL down in Arizona, and their worst season numbers are better than Lloyd's best. Lloyd simply does not stack up against any good #1 or even #2 WR in this league, even when you compare virtually identical situations with bad teams and bad QBs. I could see an argument for not comparing him to Marvin Harrison, but you can pick plenty of WRs in the NFL who are catching passes from QBs far worse than Brunell and/or Campbell yet still putting up numbers that shame Brandon Lloyd.

There is simply no factual, statistically supported basis for believing Lloyd is a good WR. If you want to sit here and raise vague, baseless questions about why Gibbs did what he did, and maybe it's the system and maybe it's the QB and maybe it's a bad pair of shoes or there's just someone out to get Lloyd, I suppose we could do that all day.

Anyone can sit around and raise questions. If you believe that Lloyd is a good receiver then back it up with something other than pure conjecture.

That is where talent evaluation comes in, does a player have ability or not, you are the type who is cut and dry, if a player doesn't produce he's a bust, if he does it's because he's great, without factoring in the circumstances of his success or failure.


Your problem is you are stuck on stats, as many do, stats are easily manipulated often because of circumstances which is the whole point. he's not going to stack up because he's not being used.

But if you think you are correct with your statement on Lloyd then take it up with Gibbs and let him know that there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to trade for the guy because as you said he's a lousy WR. Of coarse that's not what we heard when we traded for him is it?

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by offiss

That is where talent evaluation comes in, does a player have ability or not, you are the type who is cut and dry, if a player doesn't produce he's a bust, if he does it's because he's great, without factoring in the circumstances of his success or failure.


Your problem is you are stuck on stats, as many do, stats are easily manipulated often because of circumstances which is the whole point. he's not going to stack up because he's not being used.

But if you think you are correct with your statement on Lloyd then take it up with Gibbs and let him know that there was absolutely no reason whatsoever to trade for the guy because as you said he's a lousy WR. Of coarse that's not what we heard when we traded for him is it?

Ok, why should Brandon Lloyd be used here?

I'll give you that having a bad QB is pretty much death for a receiver in terms of receptions and yards gained, but what about when he moves onto another team and is even more totally useless.

The coaches gave Lloyd every chance to be successful here and he's been terrible.