WP article: Time for Gibbs to walk away?

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by djnemo65

Fair enough, but do you really think we could ever beat the Patriots with this team? Honestly? If we played 100 times could we win one?

Actually, yes. They are by far the better team, but I thought going in we had a chance. I thought we still had a chance when we got Brady's fumble. Once they got a fumble in return, the wheels came off. The D was clearly worn out, more mentally than physically.

JC missed a couple throws he shouldn't have in the 1st half & the fumbles were due mainly to poor blocks, although Vrabel made a hell of a play on the one when he snuck up under CP. Even a 52-7 game still hinges on a couple plays. Not saying we'd won, but if we score to make it 17-7 at half, you have a different game.

In addition, GW didn't want to blitz w/Rogers & Smoot healthy, but if we were to play them again I think he'd definitely have a different game plan that included at least a few blitzes.

We got whooped but I don't think we're as bad as we played. Much of it is psychological and Gibbs biggest task is to get this team to step up & take control like they did in 05 after losing to the g-men & oakland. That aspect of Gibbs is what I have confidence in.

[Green1]

They show get a GM, but Gibbs needs to take back over the playcalling. With his playbook. 50 Gut- counter trey = AL Saunders running plays up the middle

[scowan]

You guys, I read an article a few years back that said there is not a lot of difference between teams that finish 10-6 or 6-10. A few plays here and there every week decides these team's fates. Teams that finish 11-5 or higher or 5-11 or lower are clearly better or worst than most teams they face. Last year the Skins were 5-11 with injuries and a QB change. The Skins were not that good at all. This year they are one of these teams that will finish somewhere between 10-6 and 6-10. I am personally hoping for the 10-6, or 9-7 side of this scale, but again a few plays here or there in each game will determine the Redskin's fates. A lot of those plays are luck and don't have anything to do with coaching, (missed FG, dropped pass, a fumble you don't recover) they are all "breaks" that either go your way or don't. We all know that the Skins have had a conservative game plan, the only fault with that to me is that Gibbs is trying too hard to control these "breaks", when you really can't. The best you can do with the talent of a 10-6 to 6-10 scaled team, (which IMO is the skill level of the team we have currently) is to play all out every play every week and hope more "breaks" come your way than the other team. Teams like the Pats, and the Colts don't play that way, because they are 11-5 or higher teams. The Skins are not.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by Green1

They show get a GM, but Gibbs needs to take back over the playcalling. With his playbook. 50 Gut- counter trey = AL Saunders running plays up the middle

I know that Portis is having trouble right now, but asking Al Saunders to run the ball up the gut might be a little too much to ask.

[BDBohnzie]

For some reason, when people question how long it takes to build a Super Bowl winner, I think of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Bill Cowher. He was the Steelers coach for 15 years, and made it to the Super Bowl twice, winning once (14th season). While other teams went through coaches left and right, including the Redskins, Cowher was a mainstay in Pittsburgh.

I think whomever takes over for Gibbs (when he's ready to leave on his terms...he will not be fired), this is the style of approach necessary to build a winner. Cowher had 3 losing seasons in 15 years. The Rooneys gave him what he needed, and Cowher led them on the field.

Now, don't get me wrong...I know of the talk of Cowher being the next coach here. And I'm certainly not on the Cowher bandwagon to bring him here. We have 2 perfectly good candidates in Saunders and Williams to take over this team when Gibbs is ready. I see Gibbs keeping his Team President role and giving the next head coach what they need to be successful.

The New England game was an anomaly. New England played at the top of their game, while the Skins played at the bottom. This team is better than what we saw last Sunday, and I don't think we'll see that "team" again the rest of the season. The nice thing: at 4-3, we still have plenty of time to right the ship.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Unless we hire The All Mighty himself as General Manager, anyone we bring in will make plenty of mistakes as well. This notion that a GM is just going to magically fix everything (and never mind that they would still probably answer to at least Gibbs and Snyder) is beyond me.

I think bringing in a GM would help us not to make the really stupid decisions that the Redskins have made over the last 10 years. Everybody makes mistakes but it seems that the skins have made some horrible FO decisions that not too many other organizations have made. No a GM isn't going to magically fix everything but our system hasn't worked since Snyder has been here. 2 years in the playoffs, no championship games, 1 nfc east title...not going to cut it.

[Dlyne8r]

Originally Posted by Daseal

washingtonpost.com - nation, world, technology and Washington area news and headlines is the link to the article.

The guy makes great points in his article. While for the most part I've been happy with Gibbs with the personnel he's gone after, his coaching has left a lot to be lacking. I feel like even 4 years in he doesn't understand clock management, is consistently letting opponents back in the game after every half, and seems like a mediocre coach in the NFL now days. Gibbs has had four years to turn this team around, and thanks to Clinton Portis running like a madman and our defense just being incrediable in 2005 we made the playoffs.

I would have been happy to see Gibbs gone last year, but every game that passes I'm getting more and more used to the idea of a new head coach in DC. If he wants to stay on for personnel decision, fine. But I'm ready for the Greg Williams era to begin.

I think those of you that know me realize this isn't some knee jerk reaction to the pats game. I think that was shocking of just how far we have to go, but still.

While I agree with some of your post ("I feel like even 4 years in he doesn't understand clock management, is consistently letting opponents back in the game after every half, and seems like a mediocre coach in the NFL now days"), I'm not sold on Gregg Williams becomming our "next" savior. Granted the Buffalo Bills were a completely different organization than the 'Skins, I wonder how Williams would approach the offensive side of things. Would he keep Al Saunders or get someone new? Again, this would be yet another re-building of the team and how many times have we gone through that process already? I'm sad to say that I do agree with you that if coach Joe doesn't right the ship after this season, changes must be made at the top starting with the head coach we have all come to admire.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I think bringing in a GM would help us not to make the really stupid decisions that the Redskins have made over the last 10 years. Everybody makes mistakes but it seems that the skins have made some horrible FO decisions that not too many other organizations have made. No a GM isn't going to magically fix everything but our system hasn't worked since Snyder has been here. 2 years in the playoffs, no championship games, 1 nfc east title...not going to cut it.

For all of the criticism heaped on the front office (and some of it is much deserved), there aren't too many FA moves we've made since 2000 that I disagree with. What big-money free agent deals would you take back? I'd only go with Trotter, Archuleta, Duckett, and Lloyd. People, including myself, were highly critical of the trades to nab Jason Campbell and Rocky McIntosh. And while the jury is still out on those guys, the moves actually look pretty damn good right now.

[Dlyne8r]

Originally Posted by Green1

They show get a GM, but Gibbs needs to take back over the playcalling. With his playbook. 50 Gut- counter trey = AL Saunders running plays up the middle

Welcome to the site Green1. But, what you suggest is really what has made Gibbs so predictable. 50 Gut, Counter Trey, etc., etc. worked well back in the 80's, but I don't truly believe he's had near as much success running those type formations in his second round.

[irish]

Originally Posted by BDBohnzie

For some reason, when people question how long it takes to build a Super Bowl winner, I think of the Pittsburgh Steelers and Bill Cowher. He was the Steelers coach for 15 years, and made it to the Super Bowl twice, winning once (14th season). While other teams went through coaches left and right, including the Redskins, Cowher was a mainstay in Pittsburgh.

I think whomever takes over for Gibbs (when he's ready to leave on his terms...he will not be fired), this is the style of approach necessary to build a winner. Cowher had 3 losing seasons in 15 years. The Rooneys gave him what he needed, and Cowher led them on the field.

Now, don't get me wrong...I know of the talk of Cowher being the next coach here. And I'm certainly not on the Cowher bandwagon to bring him here. We have 2 perfectly good candidates in Saunders and Williams to take over this team when Gibbs is ready. I see Gibbs keeping his Team President role and giving the next head coach what they need to be successful.

The New England game was an anomaly. New England played at the top of their game, while the Skins played at the bottom. This team is better than what we saw last Sunday, and I don't think we'll see that "team" again the rest of the season. The nice thing: at 4-3, we still have plenty of time to right the ship.

Cowher may have only won the SB once but he was in the AFC chamionship game a bunch and a perennial playoff contender. I think a big part of the reason Cowher could coach for 15 years is that he was brought in young so even if it took a few years to get the ball rolling he was still young enough to let it roll for a few years. Like I said before, Gibbs is old and is now in his 4th season. Even if the ball got rolling fast (which it didnt) it wasnt like Gibbs was going to be around long anyway so it would be on to another coach and a new system. Thats just not the way to build a consistent winner. I hope the next redskin coach is closer to 30 yrs old than to 70.

[redsk1]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

For all of the criticism heaped on the front office (and some of it is much deserved), there aren't too many FA moves we've made since 2000 that I disagree with. What big-money free agent deals would you take back? I'd only go with Trotter, Archuleta, Duckett, and Lloyd. People, including myself, were highly critical of the trades to nab Jason Campbell and Rocky McIntosh. And while the jury is still out on those guys, the moves actually look pretty damn good right now.

There are alot of good moves too, no question. I posted them earlier in the thread. We need to avoid the lloyds, AA, Duckett, Portis draft pick, etc.

[#56fanatic]

its hard to disagree with the guy. he makes some very good points. Fact is Gibbs really hasn't turned around this franchise like we all have expected, and I am sure as Snyder expected. 6-10 1st season, 10-6 second season (with a 5 game winning streak) 5-11 the third and 4-3 righ now. I still see the same stupid stuff we saw when he came back. Clock management, lack of adjustments, bad moves personel wise, no offensive creativity, playing not to lose instead of to win. He has given us some good talent as the writer points out, but as a whole I think the personel moves have been less than average. I just dont see this team in any better situation (win loss record) than before he got here. I know people are going to bring up the players we have, and that supports my statement. With these players we should be winning more, we should be scoring more points, instead of having the 25th to 31st ranked offense every year.

[rk3025]

Thank God that Snyder owns the team not the Washington Post with those goofballs saying Spurrier was better than Gibbs is really stupid as he turned over signal calling and had Lewis organize the team activities plus the record was not getting any better

Originally Posted by skinsfan0201

Everyone is entitled to his/her own opinion, but Gibbs walked into a firestorm and has already taken a franchise to the playoffs once in his second tenure. The NFL is a much tougher place than it used to be, and I think that Joe knows what is best for Joe, but he has already put the Redskins in a far better place as a franchise than it was before he got here. And in addition, sorry but injuries do play a hell of a role in whether or not you are in contention down the line, especially when a lot of teams including the Patriots are built around the offensive line to start. So there is my opinion, maybe our writers at the Washington Post, though I respect them Shapiro, Wilbon, Kornheiser should think a little more about not trying to make such a splash with there somewhat meddling articles especially this week.

[birdz4gibbs]

Originally Posted by Sheriff Gonna Getcha

I didn't see and don't need to read the article. Whomever wrote it has no sense of timing. That is the kind of article you write in the offseason or when the team is clearly going to wind up with a bad record. To pose a question in Week 9 about whether Gibbs should hang it up is premature and, to use the word of the week, retarded.

On a related note, I'm tired of people overreacting to each and every win or loss. After the games against Miami and Philadelphia, most every fan and journalist said things like, "Good teams win close games and beat teams that they are supposed to beat. The Redskins managed to pull out wins in close games against teams that they were supposed to beat. In short, they are a good team." After the Detroit game, just about everyone was ready to send Jason to Hawaii and get order tickets to the Super Bowl. And so, with expectations generally running very high, people predicted that we would actually beat a team that is just crushing their opponents. What is aggravating is that many of the very same people who predicted that we would beat the very best team in the NFL are now jumping ship after getting beaten by a team that should have beaten us. So in one week people are predicting that we will beat the best team in the league and the next week they are predicting an implosion?

Aside from the worst of the worst and the best of the best, teams win games and they lose games. This is the NFL and, as the saying goes, "On any given Sunday." Great teams lose games that they "shouldn't" and bad teams win games even when the consensus was that they couldn't. Nevertheless, fans and the media overreact to and over-analyze each and every play in each and every game. The players fumble balls or the quarterback throws a few picks and all of the sudden the coaches go from Godsends to incompetents and the players go from studs to duds.

The fact is that this team is going to lose and win games....all with the same coaching staff, schemes, players, and jock straps. The bottom line is that this team is neither horrible nor spectacular. It is a slightly above average team that has a very good chance of making the playoffs. Could they screw it up? Sure. As they say, "On any given Sunday."

i think you about covered it all and i commend your efforts...
in this era of free agency it much harder to keep eveyone happy and keep them together for long periods of time ,aka the 80,thru early 90,s like you used too and that where joe gibbs excelled at.so we will win/lose games i just hope we win more than we lose and win the ones against dallas and i,m thrilled to death..
the media and fans do tend to get a little carried away.. great post.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by redsk1

I think bringing in a GM would help us not to make the really stupid decisions that the Redskins have made over the last 10 years. Everybody makes mistakes but it seems that the skins have made some horrible FO decisions that not too many other organizations have made. No a GM isn't going to magically fix everything but our system hasn't worked since Snyder has been here. 2 years in the playoffs, no championship games, 1 nfc east title...not going to cut it.

I think that's a misperception simply because we follow the team so closely compared to other teams.