The Silver Lining From Today's Cloud

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

the other silver lining is that clinton portis looked completely devastated after the loss... I love the guy and he looked like he was stabbed in the heart as he was walking off the field... I felt connected to him in a way because that's exactly what I felt.

I wish more guys felt that way...I love the guy's passion and his efforts to win. I said a couple of weeks ago I thought he was still the face of the franchise.... and to my surprise no one really agreed with me...

Portis is the man - I hope I don't hear ANYONE saying they prefer Betts after seeing Clinton put this team on his back the last couple of games. The guy is an absolute warrior.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

Portis is the man - I hope I don't hear ANYONE saying they prefer Betts after seeing Clinton put this team on his back the last couple of games. The guy is an absolute warrior.

Clinton has definitely stepped up these last two games.

My only beef with putting our hopes on the running game is that every team in our division has a back better than Portis. So if we are going to run the ball until the cows come home, our offense is going to get outgained by all our divisional opponents.

It's Cooley and Campbell that make us unique and will allow us to separate us from our competition.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

My only beef with putting our hopes on the running game is that every team in our division has a back better than Portis.

you really think that??? westbrook cannot get a short yardage run... they shoveled it in today, and he's a great speedy recieving back, but I'd take portis over any other back in our division....

is brandon jacobs better? and julius jones? or are you talking about marion barber?

Either way portis is the second leading rusher in the NFC and number 3 in the entire league... in yards and in td's...

I'm not trying to call you out or be mean, but what you say makes no sense to me.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

you really think that??? westbrook cannot get a short yardage run... they shoveled it in today, and he's a great speedy recieving back, but I'd take portis over any other back in our division....

is brandon jacobs better? and julius jones? or are you talking about marion barber?

Either way portis is the second leading rusher in the NFC and number 3 in the entire league... in yards and in td's...

I'm not trying to call you out or be mean, but what you say makes no sense to me.

Westbrook wouldn't last half a season here if asked to get the tough yards that Portis gets. He's an excellent fit for what Philly likes to do - spread the field with the pass, run a lot of draws and screen passes. He is not a classic pounder like Portis.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

you really think that??? westbrook cannot get a short yardage run... they shoveled it in today, and he's a great speedy recieving back, but I'd take portis over any other back in our division....

is brandon jacobs better? and julius jones? or are you talking about marion barber?

Either way portis is the second leading rusher in the NFC and number 3 in the entire league... in yards and in td's...

I'm not trying to call you out or be mean, but what you say makes no sense to me.

Jacobs is better, Barber is better, Westbrook is better.

Westbrook can't get a short yardage run...that's not based in reality. You don't have to look any further than today, but if you choose to, he's got incredible statistical splits in every situation. He's just a great player, probably the best RB in the conference.

Barber is just really, really good. Probably the 2nd best running back in the conference. Great vision, runs hard, great receiving skills. You can't really argue that Portis is a better running back than those two.

Now, Jacobs is the most controversial, but based on what he's done so far this year, he is very clearly better than Portis. He's still got a long way to go to establish himself as an elite back, but right now I would say he's running better than Portis. Jacobs is having a great, great year so long as hes been healthy. Much better than Portis, thus far. We'll see if I'm right on this one. One thing is for sure, the Giants running game over the past few years has been much better than ours.

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Jacobs is better, Barber is better, Westbrook is better.

Westbrook can't get a short yardage run...that's not based in reality. You don't have to look any further than today, but if you choose to, he's got incredible statistical splits in every situation. He's just a great player, probably the best RB in the conference.

Barber is just really, really good. Probably the 2nd best running back in the conference. Great vision, runs hard, great receiving skills. You can't really argue that Portis is a better running back than those two.

Now, Jacobs is the most controversial, but based on what he's done so far this year, he is very clearly better than Portis. He's still got a long way to go to establish himself as an elite back, but right now I would say he's running better than Portis. Jacobs is having a great, great year so long as hes been healthy. Much better than Portis, thus far. We'll see if I'm right on this one. One thing is for sure, the Giants running game over the past few years has been much better than ours.

None of those guys you named are running behind an O-line that lost two starters on one side.

[GusFrerotte]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

None of those guys you named are running behind an O-line that lost two starters on one side.

Good point, but guess what? Those guys are gone so we have to deal with it and hope the backups play good ball. Hopefully next season they will be back 100% and we can give it another go.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

None of those guys you named are running behind an O-line that lost two starters on one side.

O-line or not, the success is still there. Fabini and Wade are comparable to the players who are starters on those lines anyway, so the point is moot.

The point is that they are all better runners, more powerful, more elusive etc. I'm merely pointing this out, not suggesting something ridiculous. Year in and year out (save Jacobs, who is in his first year as a starter), those guys have consistently higher YPC than Portis.

[EternalEnigma21]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Jacobs is better, Barber is better, Westbrook is better.

they're neck and neck in yards and tds (with portis having the edge in yards over all of them) and portis started the year splitting time with betts, played behind an o line completely wrecked with injuries, and they all have the advantage of playing against defenses that will consistently protect against a deep ball... whereas all of the defenses we face know we want to pound the ball... may as well be facing 4-5 fronts and still getting the job done. That's the only reason he doesn't have the YPC... well, that and the fact that he hasn't been healthy in two years... 2 weeks ago he had his first two consecutive days at practice in almost 2 full years...

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you couldn't be any farther from reason.

[jamf]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you couldn't be any farther from reason.

I couldnt agree more.
Portis is the class of the NFC east Running backs.


Btw, Lets give James Thrash some credit for coming through for us.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by canthetuna

they're neck and neck in yards and tds (with portis having the edge in yards over all of them) and portis started the year splitting time with betts, played behind an o line completely wrecked with injuries, and they all have the advantage of playing against defenses that will consistently protect against a deep ball... whereas all of the defenses we face know we want to pound the ball... may as well be facing 4-5 fronts and still getting the job done. That's the only reason he doesn't have the YPC... well, that and the fact that he hasn't been healthy in two years... 2 weeks ago he had his first two consecutive days at practice in almost 2 full years...

You're entitled to your opinion, but I think you couldn't be any farther from reason.

Portis' YPC in Washington: A respectable 4.09 (4.2 this season)

Westbrook's YPC in Philly: An obsured 4.7! (4.8 this season!)

Barber in Dallas: 4.6 YPC (5.4!!!!! this season)

And for kicks, Jacobs is averaging 5.6 YPC this year as a starter.

You can make all the excuses you want for the guy, but you might as well save them. The point is not to show how ineffective Portis is. His production levels here have always been very respectable.

The point is that the "reason" you speak of definitely supports my case. The three teams in our division all have great running games, and we do not. The back is only a percentage of that running game, but the biggest percentage. Portis just hasn't been as effective as the other three guys. He just hasn't. That's not really my opinion, that's easy to see.

My opinion is that going foward, those three guys will continue to average higher than Portis because they are quicker and/or more powerful runners with better vision.

[Sheriff Gonna Getcha]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

My opinion is that going foward, those three guys will continue to average higher than Portis because they are quicker and/or more powerful runners with better vision.

They're also playing in offenses that are much more balanced and have good passing attacks. Teams look at the Redskins and say, "If we stop Portis, we win." Teams look at Dallas and the NYG and don't say, "We've got to stop Barber" or "We've got to stop Jacobs." Moreover, Barber and Jacobs look like very good backs, but their body of work is pretty limited. I'll give you Westbrook, dude's insane and a bigger threat than Portis.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Jacobs is better, Barber is better, Westbrook is better.

If you're simply basing that argument on this season, then I guess all of those backs are better than Tomlinson too...

An argument can be made that Westbrook is a better offensive weapon, but he's not a great runner between the tackles and his blocking is suspect. Barber runs so hard that there's a good chance he'll be used up in three seasons. And saying Jacobs is a better back when he's already been injured in his first season as a starter is a bit unrealistic.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Southpaw

If you're simply basing that argument on this season, then I guess all of those backs are better than Tomlinson too...

An argument can be made that Westbrook is a better offensive weapon, but he's not a great runner between the tackles and his blocking is suspect. Barber runs so hard that there's a good chance he'll be used up in three seasons. And saying Jacobs is a better back when he's already been injured in his first season as a starter is a bit unrealistic.

If the standard for Westbrook's between tackles running is applied to Portis...lets just say that I wouldn't want to speak so lowly of a Redskin. Westbrook is an excellent between the tackles runner. Check some running splits....or something. The Eagles lead the NFC East this year in YPC between the tackles by a pretty big margin.

Again, I said that I believe Jacobs is better, but it's really up for debate whether or not he can keep up this pace. I think he can have a career average around 4.7 or 4.8. Portis isn't good enough for that. Over 4 years behind a very solid OL, he's posted respectable YPC numbers. Behind the same line, Westbrook, Barber, and Jacobs would all be averaging more than CP.

Then again, it's not like guys the caliber of those RBs grow on trees.

[Southpaw]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

If the standard for Westbrook's between tackles running is applied to Portis...lets just say that I wouldn't want to speak so lowly of a Redskin. Westbrook is an excellent between the tackles runner. Check some running splits....or something. The Eagles lead the NFC East this year in YPC between the tackles by a pretty big margin.

Again, I said that I believe Jacobs is better, but it's really up for debate whether or not he can keep up this pace. I think he can have a career average around 4.7 or 4.8. Portis isn't good enough for that. Over 4 years behind a very solid OL, he's posted respectable YPC numbers. Behind the same line, Westbrook, Barber, and Jacobs would all be averaging more than CP.

Then again, it's not like guys the caliber of those RBs grow on trees.

Maybe I shouldn't have use the term "between the tackles" when referring to Westbrook. The Eagles coaching staff(like most good coaches) design runs that suit Westbrook's ability. When Westbrook runs between the tackles, it's usually a quick draw that was setup as a pass, with a gaping hole in the short middle of the field. Just watching the game yesterday, I noticed more than half of his runs were called from a spread formation. Being a shifty back in a pass first offense definitely benefits his rushing totals, and since people seem to act like Portis' two seasons in Denver don't account for anything(since "he was a system back"); Westbrook can't truly be judged as a rusher until he's in a rush first offense. But I am willing to concede that Westbrook is a better offensive weapon, and a better fit for the Eagles scheme.

And automatically assuming that Westbrook, Barber, and Jacobs would do better on this team than Portis is pure speculation with no factual basis. Westbrook would have to change his style about as much as Portis did to fit into the Redskins offensive philosophy. Jacobs looks solid, but that doesn't mean a whole lot when he's already displayed durability issues in his first season as a starter. The injury may have been an anomaly, but that remains to be seen. And while I think Barber runs harder than Portis, I also think he'd end up being run into the ground within a few seasons in this offense.