If Not Joe, Then Who?

Bill B · 12-02-2007, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GMScud

Overall head coaches who act as GMs haven't had a ton of success in the league. Cowher was never a GM or team prez in Pittsburgh and had a great run there. If ain't broke, why try to fix it? I understand the idea of trying to set higher goals and achieve more, but I think he may be setting himself up for failure if he wants complete control.

Wouldn't it seem a little silly to hire another retired coach with a Super Bowl ring(s) who had never been a personnel man before and expect him to excel in both roles?

GM Scud has identified the biggest problem at Redskin Park. Listen, ever since Synder has purchased the team the one constant at Redskin Park during his tenure is not having a seperate GM from the head coach except when he fired Casserly in the beginning of his tenure. With every other avenue been tried why not give this one a try for once?

skinsfan69 · 12-02-2007, 10:08 PM

GW should be the HC. Why would we want BC and why would he want to come here? BC is going to bring in his own people so that means a total turnover in staff. We are not that far off. The BC talk is just silly.

SFREDSKIN · 12-02-2007, 10:14 PM

Gibbs or Grimm, there's no other choice. You'll be sorry!! What makes people think Cowher II or Williams II would be more successful than Gibbs II? And yes, a GM would help tremendously, get the guy from Chicago (Bobby DePaul) who was with the Redskins before he bolted for the Bears. That's my opinion.

MTRedskinsFan · 12-02-2007, 10:16 PM

Honestly, I think any of the potential coaches listed would be an improvement. I could list about a half dozen reasons why but it would only instigate a pissing match and I don't want that. Here are just a few ideas along other lines:

- Williams is my least favorite potential coach. I don't know exactly what it is but this guy is so strange. Listening to him talk on RedskinsTV I just can't see Williams establishing a strong rapport w/ any player. Maybe he is too much into himself, I'm not sure.

- I think Marty, if he wants to still coach, should be considered a contender. I know his playoff record sucks but when the playoffs seem like a miracle for us I'll take Marty any day of the week. He didn't enough time with us first time around IMO.

- Cowher will take the long term approach and build a team from the ground up, which is what it takes to really be a contender anyway, so he is probably the very best option all things consider. If he is coach next year I'll be excited again about football.

SmootSmack · 12-02-2007, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTRedskinsFan

Cowher will take the long term approach and build a team from the ground up, which is what it takes to really be a contender anyway, so he is probably the very best option all things consider. If he is coach next year I'll be excited again about football.

Problem is "long term approach" isn't really understood by most Redskins fans. I mean we've already got people saying we'll never win with Campbell and should unload him

rypper11 · 12-02-2007, 10:23 PM

Cowher is the worst coach to ever win a SB (still makes him a hell of a lot better than Norv though). He's fun and intense and if wasn't for the Rooney family loyalty he never would have lasted long enough to win the SB. If you go out on top you are always believed to be genius (Bill Walsh). If you try to recreate magic elsewhere you are remembered as an idiot (George Seifert).
Please no Cowher. Saunders failed so miserably in San Diego I think he should stay coordinator. Grimm deserves the chance to build his own team not manage the one Gibbs has built (and no I don't think the whole team should be dumped and start over. We are too close for that now). Let Blache move into the more traditional DC role and call plays while GW takes over for Gibbs who would make a great president if that is what he wants.

htownskinfan · 12-02-2007, 10:23 PM

Cowher or Grimm,either one would be fine by me

SFREDSKIN · 12-02-2007, 10:26 PM

I would be up for replacing Bugel with Grimm and having him on the wings. Another reason to dislike Cowher is that he's a Marty disciple.

rypper11 · 12-02-2007, 10:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Problem is "long term approach" isn't really understood by most Redskins fans. I mean we've already got people saying we'll never win with Campbell and should unload him

Good point but long term is only acceptable in New England. The other 31 teams want win now and if we don't blow it up and start again. Ask the Lions how blowitup with a new coach every other year is working.

Paintrain · 12-02-2007, 10:34 PM

I'm going with 'other' but I don't have an option to name. None of the ones mentioned are appealing options to me.. Cowher isn't coming back next year.. GW just doesn't do it for me-he's as culpable as Gibbs if not more for the 5 this year and 15 overall 2nd half lost leads.. I still believe in Saunders as OC but not as a head coach.. Call me crazy, but he needs autonomy to call his gameplan..

Ok, flame retardant suit is on.. With our talent, give me Saunders calling the offense and a young aggressive defensive minded head coach (see Mike Tomlin) to set the tone for the team..

Paintrain · 12-02-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTRedskinsFan

Honestly, I think any of the potential coaches listed would be an improvement. I could list about a half dozen reasons why but it would only instigate a pissing match and I don't want that. Here are just a few ideas along other lines:

- Williams is my least favorite potential coach. I don't know exactly what it is but this guy is so strange. Listening to him talk on RedskinsTV I just can't see Williams establishing a strong rapport w/ any player. Maybe he is too much into himself, I'm not sure.

- I think Marty, if he wants to still coach, should be considered a contender. I know his playoff record sucks but when the playoffs seem like a miracle for us I'll take Marty any day of the week. He didn't enough time with us first time around IMO.

- Cowher will take the long term approach and build a team from the ground up, which is what it takes to really be a contender anyway, so he is probably the very best option all things consider. If he is coach next year I'll be excited again about football.

Damn, if we are tough on Gibbs 2.o, what would Marty 2.0 look like?

MTRedskinsFan · 12-02-2007, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm going with 'other' but I don't have an option to name. None of the ones mentioned are appealing options to me.. Cowher isn't coming back next year.. GW just doesn't do it for me-he's as culpable as Gibbs if not more for the 5 this year and 15 overall 2nd half lost leads.. I still believe in Saunders as OC but not as a head coach.. Call me crazy, but he needs autonomy to call his gameplan..

Ok, flame retardant suit is on.. With our talent, give me Saunders calling the offense and a young aggressive defensive minded head coach (see Mike Tomlin) to set the tone for the team..

Good post. I've been looking for that "other guy" who resembles Tomlin but haven't come up w/ didley squat. For that matter, who knew Tomlin could do what he's done. Maybe there is another real strong character guy out there just waiting for the opportunity to shine.

Rock31 · 12-02-2007, 10:49 PM

Let's grant Joe the option of finishing his contract, if he so chooses. He's the one who truly believes in Jason, commands the respect of every player and has brought respectability back to the franchise in terms of attracting free agents and not sacrificing draft picks. Granted, some of his FAs have been busts and most picks have yet to make an impact. This doesn't mean you jump ship and overhaul, when there is a committed, determined HC with a plan in place. Many fans will argue Gibbs' coaching hasn't solved very much the last few seasons, but that's evidenced only in the fine print of the W/L record. What Joe has done is brought in the pieces necessary to play his style of ball: power running. Whether or not Portis epitomizes the hard-nosed grunt of a back Gibbs prefers is up for debate, but the other cogs of the offense, such as the big offensive line (when healthy), Cooley, the short-to-medium yardage possession tight end, and Sellers, the bowling ball fullback, certainly were meant to support a running philosophy. It was thought that Brunell would have enough of an arm to toss it deep to what are, let's face it, little more than downfield-only threat Moss, and that Campbell now would continue to fill that role, but in a much more lively and effective way than Brunell.

I think the "boogeyman" on the coaching squad is Saunders. If you take into account the makeup of this team, which lacks explosive playmakers and improvisational open-field players, Saunders is not a good fit. I think when Gibbs addresses the matter of whether or not the Skins are capable of making a big play, he has to insist "yes, they are" in a nod to Saunders (Joe wouldn't really want to publicly ruffle the feathers of a millionaire assistant, now would he?). Yes, Joe makes the crucial decisions during games, but is it him who calls the offensive plays anymore? No. Everyone has been remarking it is Gibbs' conservative play-calling that has been the albatross of the offense, but when you are equipped with players that are manufactured to run hard and run often, how does a team put up big stats and blow away opponents?

In summary, it's one or the other that needs to go: Gibbs and his preferred offensive players, or Saunders and his preferred, but as yet unrealized, explosive, speedy playmakers. It would be a lot easier for the Skins to stick with Gibbs and the current cast of characters (with some rushing attack-oriented picks in the '08 draft and free agent signings of a similar nature) for next season than to let Saunders or a new coach take over, which would require an offensive overhaul consistent with the philosophy of that new leader. This is not excusing the lapses in discipline among the players and frequent poor judgment by Gibbs in his second stint; rather, it is talking straight about what this team was designed to do, and why it is failing at the present (thanks Saunders).

SmootSmack · 12-02-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paintrain

I'm going with 'other' but I don't have an option to name. None of the ones mentioned are appealing options to me.. Cowher isn't coming back next year.. GW just doesn't do it for me-he's as culpable as Gibbs if not more for the 5 this year and 15 overall 2nd half lost leads.. I still believe in Saunders as OC but not as a head coach.. Call me crazy, but he needs autonomy to call his gameplan..

Ok, flame retardant suit is on.. With our talent, give me Saunders calling the offense and a young aggressive defensive minded head coach (see Mike Tomlin) to set the tone for the team..

Well if we really want to take a chance, how about Titans' DC Jim Schwartz? He's young, yet he's coached for nearly a decade in the NFL. And he has local ties (played at Georgetown, coached at Maryland)

SFREDSKIN · 12-02-2007, 10:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MTRedskinsFan

Good post. I've been looking for that "other guy" who resembles Tomlin but haven't come up w/ didley squat. For that matter, who knew Tomlin could do what he's done. Maybe there is another real strong character guy out there just waiting for the opportunity to shine.

Garrett in Dallas, NE offensive co-ordinator, Buffalo OC, Butch Davis, Charlie Weiss.

View Poll Results: If Gibbs Doesn't Return, Who Should Be the Head Coach?
Bill Cowher	60	30.00%
Russ Grimm	45	22.50%
Al Saunders	9	4.50%
Gregg Williams	68	34.00%
Other (tell us who)	18	9.00%
Voters: 200. You may not vote on this poll

12-02-2007, 10:08 PM	#47
skinsfan69 Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Arlington, VA Posts: 17,450	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? GW should be the HC. Why would we want BC and why would he want to come here? BC is going to bring in his own people so that means a total turnover in staff. We are not that far off. The BC talk is just silly.

12-02-2007, 10:14 PM	#48
SFREDSKIN Living Legend Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 15,164	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? Gibbs or Grimm, there's no other choice. You'll be sorry!! What makes people think Cowher II or Williams II would be more successful than Gibbs II? And yes, a GM would help tremendously, get the guy from Chicago (Bobby DePaul) who was with the Redskins before he bolted for the Bears. That's my opinion.

12-02-2007, 10:16 PM	#49
MTRedskinsFan Registered User Join Date: Sep 2007 Posts: 359	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? Honestly, I think any of the potential coaches listed would be an improvement. I could list about a half dozen reasons why but it would only instigate a pissing match and I don't want that. Here are just a few ideas along other lines: - Williams is my least favorite potential coach. I don't know exactly what it is but this guy is so strange. Listening to him talk on RedskinsTV I just can't see Williams establishing a strong rapport w/ any player. Maybe he is too much into himself, I'm not sure. - I think Marty, if he wants to still coach, should be considered a contender. I know his playoff record sucks but when the playoffs seem like a miracle for us I'll take Marty any day of the week. He didn't enough time with us first time around IMO. - Cowher will take the long term approach and build a team from the ground up, which is what it takes to really be a contender anyway, so he is probably the very best option all things consider. If he is coach next year I'll be excited again about football.

12-02-2007, 10:23 PM	#51
rypper11 The Starter Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Raleigh, NC Posts: 1,228	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? Cowher is the worst coach to ever win a SB (still makes him a hell of a lot better than Norv though). He's fun and intense and if wasn't for the Rooney family loyalty he never would have lasted long enough to win the SB. If you go out on top you are always believed to be genius (Bill Walsh). If you try to recreate magic elsewhere you are remembered as an idiot (George Seifert). Please no Cowher. Saunders failed so miserably in San Diego I think he should stay coordinator. Grimm deserves the chance to build his own team not manage the one Gibbs has built (and no I don't think the whole team should be dumped and start over. We are too close for that now). Let Blache move into the more traditional DC role and call plays while GW takes over for Gibbs who would make a great president if that is what he wants. __________________ Playing a kids game for a kings ransom.

12-02-2007, 10:23 PM	#52
htownskinfan JUST LIVIN Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: houston,tx Age: 63 Posts: 4,929	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? Cowher or Grimm,either one would be fine by me __________________ Make The Redskins Great Again

12-02-2007, 10:26 PM	#53
SFREDSKIN Living Legend Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Pacifica, CA Posts: 15,164	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? I would be up for replacing Bugel with Grimm and having him on the wings. Another reason to dislike Cowher is that he's a Marty disciple.

12-02-2007, 10:34 PM	#55
Paintrain Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Ft. Lauderdale, FL Age: 54 Posts: 5,006	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? I'm going with 'other' but I don't have an option to name. None of the ones mentioned are appealing options to me.. Cowher isn't coming back next year.. GW just doesn't do it for me-he's as culpable as Gibbs if not more for the 5 this year and 15 overall 2nd half lost leads.. I still believe in Saunders as OC but not as a head coach.. Call me crazy, but he needs autonomy to call his gameplan.. Ok, flame retardant suit is on.. With our talent, give me Saunders calling the offense and a young aggressive defensive minded head coach (see Mike Tomlin) to set the tone for the team.. __________________ Paintrain's Redskins Fandom 1981-2014 I'm not dead but this team is dead to me...but now that McCloughan is here they may have new life! Jay Gruden = Zorny McSpurrier Kirk Cousins = Next Grossman

12-02-2007, 10:49 PM	#58
Rock31 Camp Scrub Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Asheville, NC Age: 39 Posts: 48	Re: If Not Joe, Then Who? Let's grant Joe the option of finishing his contract, if he so chooses. He's the one who truly believes in Jason, commands the respect of every player and has brought respectability back to the franchise in terms of attracting free agents and not sacrificing draft picks. Granted, some of his FAs have been busts and most picks have yet to make an impact. This doesn't mean you jump ship and overhaul, when there is a committed, determined HC with a plan in place. Many fans will argue Gibbs' coaching hasn't solved very much the last few seasons, but that's evidenced only in the fine print of the W/L record. What Joe has done is brought in the pieces necessary to play his style of ball: power running. Whether or not Portis epitomizes the hard-nosed grunt of a back Gibbs prefers is up for debate, but the other cogs of the offense, such as the big offensive line (when healthy), Cooley, the short-to-medium yardage possession tight end, and Sellers, the bowling ball fullback, certainly were meant to support a running philosophy. It was thought that Brunell would have enough of an arm to toss it deep to what are, let's face it, little more than downfield-only threat Moss, and that Campbell now would continue to fill that role, but in a much more lively and effective way than Brunell. I think the "boogeyman" on the coaching squad is Saunders. If you take into account the makeup of this team, which lacks explosive playmakers and improvisational open-field players, Saunders is not a good fit. I think when Gibbs addresses the matter of whether or not the Skins are capable of making a big play, he has to insist "yes, they are" in a nod to Saunders (Joe wouldn't really want to publicly ruffle the feathers of a millionaire assistant, now would he?). Yes, Joe makes the crucial decisions during games, but is it him who calls the offensive plays anymore? No. Everyone has been remarking it is Gibbs' conservative play-calling that has been the albatross of the offense, but when you are equipped with players that are manufactured to run hard and run often, how does a team put up big stats and blow away opponents? In summary, it's one or the other that needs to go: Gibbs and his preferred offensive players, or Saunders and his preferred, but as yet unrealized, explosive, speedy playmakers. It would be a lot easier for the Skins to stick with Gibbs and the current cast of characters (with some rushing attack-oriented picks in the '08 draft and free agent signings of a similar nature) for next season than to let Saunders or a new coach take over, which would require an offensive overhaul consistent with the philosophy of that new leader. This is not excusing the lapses in discipline among the players and frequent poor judgment by Gibbs in his second stint; rather, it is talking straight about what this team was designed to do, and why it is failing at the present (thanks Saunders).

If Not Joe, Then Who?

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