Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

True, Ghetto. But even that is subjective to an extent. Brady may or may not be this good without Belichick. What isn't subjective, however, are Belichick's championships.

What I am basically saying is: take Brady and put him on the 49ers. Would he be successful? Probably not. Would he lose his "greatness"? I don't think so. It's a team after all, and one guy alone can't do it.

This begs the question: would Brady be as great as he is today, if he were drafted to the 49ers? We'll never know, but I believe he would be -- he just wouldn't be able to show it.

Bottomline: Coaches need good QBs, QBs need good coaches and good teammates. Everyone needs each other.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I'm sorry, but I can't give Belichick too much credit for Brady. I'm of the opinion that great quarterbacks have intangibles that can't be taught, and coaching has less of an impact on their performance than their god-given abilities do.

I think the great quarterbacks like Montana, Bradshaw, Marino, Aikman, Manning and Brady are great, and would have been great, regardless of their coach. They might have been less successful with lesser coaches, but they still would have been great.

Give Belichick credit for making the Pats great, but don't give him credit for making Brady great. Afterall, if Belichick knew he was so great, why did it require an injury to Bledsoe to put him in?

So let me ask you this. If Joe Gibbs was coaching the Pats, do you think they would be running the type of offense they do? HELL NO. Gibbs would be saying, "we need balance." Although BB does not call the plays, he lets Brady spread it out and throw it all over the field. How many coaches would let Brady do that? Not too many cause they don't have the balls that BB does.

Last week NE got the ball on their own 1 yard line, got in shotgun and passed the ball every single play for a 99 yard drive. Sorry but Gibbs or alot of other coaches would come out in a 4 TE set and try and run the ball to give the punter more room and play field position. Gibbs wouldn't even think about getting 7 points backed up in his own territory. BB allows Brady to play with such an aggressive offensive attack and he has to get credit for that cause alot other coaches would never play with that style.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I agree. I do think Belichick is a great coach. I'm just not so sure he is a great person, and that is where the hate for the Pats is derived, IMO.

I credit Belichick for making the Pats great, but I don't give him credit for making Brady great. I'll credit him for finding him, and drafting him (although I'm not sure if he deserves more credit than the Pats FO).

If great QBs are made great by coaching, and not born that way, you'd have a lot more stories like Brady's. Granted there are other Cinderella stories, but not many.

Well, I do think you have to give Belichick some credit for developing Brady into a great quarterback. I don't think that is beyond reasonble. Many here, not you Ghetto, would like to believe the draft gods somehow smiled on Belichick and...poof...Brady appeared with all this Hall of Fame potential.

Make no mistake, Bill Belichick has taught Tom Brady a great deal about the game; how to recognize defenses, football mechanics and such. Some may defer to Weis on this, I beg to differ. Brady didn't possess this at Michigan, at least not on a professional level. As far as raw skill, competitive fire, leadership and other intangibles, those are all Tom Brady's.

I also believe that Bill Belichick has fostered and created an environment in New England for all of those raw skills to flourish and cause Tom Brady to play at a very high level. If nothing else, the fact the Brady was drafted in the sixth round and not the first, could be the best thing that happened to him career wise. He was allowed to fly under the radar, unlike most first round picks, and actually focus on football and getting better instead of answering dumb ass questions week to week whether he's happy being a back-up. These things go a very long way in impacting a quarterback's developement. It's not all X's and O's.

As much as I wanted to see Jason Campbell start the week Mark Brunell broke the completion record, the time he spent on the bench will serve him well in the future.

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

What I am basically saying is: take Brady and put him on the 49ers. Would he be successful? Probably not. Would he lose his "greatness"? I don't think so. It's a team after all, and one guy alone can't do it.

This begs the question: would Brady be as great as he is today, if he were drafted to the 49ers? We'll never know, but I believe he would be -- he just wouldn't be able to show it.

Bottomline: Coaches need good QBs, QBs need good coaches and good teammates. Everyone needs each other.

The timing is downright eery...

What's your pet peeve?

[GhettoDogAllStars]

@skinsfan69: The Pats offense this year is the most aggressive offense I have ever seen. Granted I'm only 25, but I think it's safe to say that it's one of the most aggressive offenses of all time. Belichick and the other Pats coaches deserve all the credit for that. However, I think having a QB like Brady allows you to do that. Everyone wants Gibbs to do the same thing with Campbell, but it's not realistic -- at least not to the same degree as the Pats.

@12thMan: Yes, Belichick deserves a lot of credit for helping Brady mature, and teaching him about the game. I just don't think he is what makes Brady great. Like you said: they make each other great.

Does anybody believe Belichick could take another 6th round QB and turn him into Brady? There's just no way.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

So let me ask you this. If Joe Gibbs was coaching the Pats, do you think they would be running the type of offense they do? HELL NO. Gibbs would be saying, "we need balance." Although BB does not call the plays, he lets Brady spread it out and throw it all over the field. How many coaches would let Brady do that? Not too many cause they don't have the balls that BB does.

Last week NE got the ball on their own 1 yard line, got in shotgun and passed the ball every single play for a 99 yard drive. Sorry but Gibbs or alot of other coaches would come out in a 4 TE set and try and run the ball to give the punter more room and play field position. Gibbs wouldn't even think about getting 7 points backed up in his own territory. BB allows Brady to play with such an aggressive offensive attack and he has to get credit for that cause alot other coaches would never play with that style.

If Gibbs would just try to run the ball how come last week the bears got a touch back against the skins? I recall Gibbs throwing often when we are pinned back deap and its when we get to the middle of the field or close to the end zone he tend to get consevative.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by mheisig

The timing is downright eery...

What's your pet peeve?

I submit to your awesome power of logic and reason! Do you teach Ethics?

This begs the question: can a phrase have more than one meaning?

(all in good fun)

[mheisig]

Originally Posted by GhettoDogAllStars

I submit to your awesome power of logic and reason! Do you teach Ethics?

This begs the question: can a phrase have more than one meaning?

(all in good fun)

Sure it can! However, when a phrase has been in use for a substantial period of time with a specific, defined meaning, should we just accept the bastardization of said phrase simply because it's commonplace?

I do like the general idea, though. For instance, from now on when I say, "Go fuck yourself," what I MEAN is "Hey man, have a great day!"

So, go fuck yourself Ghetto.

[GhettoDogAllStars]

Originally Posted by mheisig

Sure it can! However, when a phrase has been in use for a substantial period of time with a specific, defined meaning, should we just accept the bastardization of said phrase simply because it's commonplace?

I do like the general idea, though. For instance, from now on when I say, "Go fuck yourself," what I MEAN is "Hey man, have a great day!"

So, go fuck yourself Ghetto.

LOL. Nice.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

So let me ask you this. If Joe Gibbs was coaching the Pats, do you think they would be running the type of offense they do? HELL NO. Gibbs would be saying, "we need balance." Although BB does not call the plays, he lets Brady spread it out and throw it all over the field. How many coaches would let Brady do that? Not too many cause they don't have the balls that BB does.

Last week NE got the ball on their own 1 yard line, got in shotgun and passed the ball every single play for a 99 yard drive. Sorry but Gibbs or alot of other coaches would come out in a 4 TE set and try and run the ball to give the punter more room and play field position. Gibbs wouldn't even think about getting 7 points backed up in his own territory. BB allows Brady to play with such an aggressive offensive attack and he has to get credit for that cause alot other coaches would never play with that style.

Here's something kind of interesting about the Patriots. The Patriots have run for 105 first downs, second-most in the league behind Minnesota (108), and are tied with Miami with 28.8 first downs per carry. Oh, and Tom Brady has nine first-down runs on third down out of 10 tries, a league-best 90-percent success rate. (courtesy: Cold Hard Football Facts)

[celts32]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Wrong, Belichek was hired in 1/2000 and Brady was aquired in the 2000 draft which was in 4/2000. So does that now make him a great coach?

No. Explain why he had one winning season in 5 with the browns? Then he goes like 5-11 in his first season in New England...0-2 the next year until Bledsoe gets hurt...suddenly Brady starts playing and Belichek becomes a genius? Pulllease...this is more than a little circumstantial evidence.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by firstdown

If Gibbs would just try to run the ball how come last week the bears got a touch back against the skins? I recall Gibbs throwing often when we are pinned back deap and its when we get to the middle of the field or close to the end zone he tend to get consevative.

The Pats offense is strictly a pass first offense. My question was if Gibbs coached the Pats, would he have the balls to run that type of offense? Where you pass it almost every play. I don't think so. And this isnt knocking Gibbs in anyway. It's just BB does what he thinks is best to score points which is the smartest thing to do cause that best fits the talent he has. I've never heard BB talk about having balance. All he cares about is scoring.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Here's something kind of interesting about the Patriots. The Patriots have run for 105 first downs, second-most in the league behind Minnesota (108), and are tied with Miami with 28.8 first downs per carry. Oh, and Tom Brady has nine first-down runs on third down out of 10 tries, a league-best 90-percent success rate. (courtesy: Cold Hard Football Facts)

Would you classify NE as a passing team, or a running team?

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by celts32

No. Explain why he had one winning season in 5 with the browns? Then he goes like 5-11 in his first season in New England...0-2 the next year until Bledsoe gets hurt...suddenly Brady starts playing and Belichek becomes a genius? Pulllease...this is more than a little circumstantial evidence.

Your right he is average at best.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Would you classify NE as a passing team, or a running team?

Pass first, I'd say. I'd say that if they needed to run I don't know if they could get it done. Their passing game frees up their running game more so than it does for other teams