Why All The Hate Toward The Patriots?

[Defensewins]

I do not like or hate Bellicheck all that much, but you do have to give HIM credit for one thing: there has been LARGE amount of turnover of players and assistant coaches on the SB Pats teams, but yet they remained a good team and actually improved. The only remaining starters form the Pats first SB win is Brady, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel. That is it just 3 players out of 22. Everyone else is gone, like off the team.
The 4 time SB champ Steelers did not have the roster changes that SB champs Pats have had. Hall of famers Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth, Franco Harris, Rocky Blier, C Mike Webster on offense; Joe Green, L.C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham and Mel Bloundt to name just a few were on all four SB teams.
They did not rebuild the team like the Pats have done.
That takes a great FO but most importantly it takes a great coach and system.
Sorry Bellicheck haters, but he is a good coach and history will show it that way. This current team is fairly young and will keep winning.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

I do not like or hate Bellicheck all that much, but you do have to give HIM credit for one thing: there has been LARGE amount of turnover of players and assistant coaches on the SB Pats teams, but yet they remained a good team and actually improved. The only remaining starters form the Pats first SB win is Brady, Tedy Bruschi and Mike Vrabel. That is it just 3 players out of 22. Everyone else is gone, like off the team.
The 4 time SB champ Steelers did not have the roster changes that SB champs Pats have had. Hall of famers Bradshaw, Swann, Stallworth, Franco Harris, Rocky Blier, C Mike Webster on offense; Joe Green, L.C. Greenwood, Jack Lambert, Jack Ham and Mel Bloundt to name just a few were on all four SB teams.
They did not rebuild the team like the Pats have done.
That takes a great FO but most importantly it takes a great coach and system.
Sorry Bellicheck haters, but he is a good coach and history will show it that way. This current team is fairly young and will keep winning.

I agree with you that he's a good coach...maybe even very good...I disagree with those who now view him as the greatest coach of all time and some imortal NFL legend.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree with you that he's a good coach...maybe even very good...I disagree with those who now view him as the greatest coach of all time and some imortal NFL legend.

I don't think anyone (maybe Pat fans) think BB is the greatest coach of all times but I have to say he is one of the best if not the best of current coaches.

[celts32]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I don't think anyone (maybe Pat fans) think BB is the greatest coach of all times but I have to say he is one of the best if not the best of current coaches.

I agree he's one of the best current...but listen to the way the media talks about him now. I have heard all time great and best ever thrown around with him by many media heads.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree he's one of the best current...but listen to the way the media talks about him now. I have heard all time great and best ever thrown around with him by many media heads.

Celts, you never answered a question I had for you.

How do you measure the all-time great coaches?

[celts32]

Originally Posted by 12thMan

Celts, you never answered a question I had for you.

How do you measure the all-time great coaches?

I know your point is that you measure them by super bowl wins, and yes he does have 3 going on 4. However, I don't think it's fair to say that if he has 4 or 5 that makes him a better coach then another coach who only won 2 or 3 super bowls. What it comes down to is I personally choose to penalize him for his 6 years of pre-Brady failures more then most people will. It's just my opinion.

And for the record I am only 36 so I only know the Lombardi legend from NFL Fils and books having never lived through the era...IMO the best coaches ever in my life are Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcels.

[12thMan]

Originally Posted by celts32

I know your point is that you measure them by super bowl wins, and yes he does have 3 going on 4. However, I don't think it's fair to say that if he has 4 or 5 that makes him a better coach then another coach who only won 2 or 3 super bowls. What it comes down to is I personally choose to penalize him for his 6 years of pre-Brady failures more then most people will. It's just my opinion.

And for the record I am only 36 so I only know the Lombardi legend from NFL Fils and books having never lived through the era...IMO the best coaches ever in my life are Bill Walsh, Joe Gibbs and Bill Parcels.

For the record, I'm thirty..well, we're about the same age Suffice it to say, I've never seen Lombardi either. But if Super Bowl victories aren't the measure of greatness, then what is? Yes, the ultimate measurement and benchmark for greatness, as far as coaches go, are Super Bowl victories. If not, then what separates Belichick from the Marty Shottenheimer's of the world? We don't mention the coaches who lost four Super Bowls for the Bills and Vikings respectively, but we can rattle off the people who have won a few.

And that's fine to penalize Belichick for his tenure with the Browns, he'll still be a first ballot hall of famer. Like it or not. And his name will be mentioned with Vince Lombardi, like it or not. In the end, no one will ever remember what Belichick did with Cleveland.

I'm willing to bet, the casual fan has no idea he even had a stint with Cleveland. Most think he and Brady dropped out of heaven about 30 seconds behind each other.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by celts32

I agree with you that he's a good coach...maybe even very good...I disagree with those who now view him as the greatest coach of all time and some imortal NFL legend.

i have never heard anyone call BB the greatest. Please cite your misinformed talking head. If a TV sports commentator did say that he is stupid.
There is no such thing as greatest of all time at anything except maybe Michael Jordan.

[Campbell17]

Originally Posted by Defensewins

i have never heard anyone call BB the greatest. Please cite your misinformed talking head. If a TV sports commentator did say that he is stupid.
There is no such thing as greatest of all time at anything except maybe Michael Jordan.

First off, I agree with Defensewins with the first statement; the Patriots have the best team ever, not coach. However I would have to object with your second. Consider Roger Federer in tennis, Gretzky in Hockey, Tiger in golf. Personally I think the greatest coach of all time would be Lombardi.

[Defensewins]

Originally Posted by Campbell17

First off, I agree with Defensewins with the first statement; the Patriots have the best team ever, not coach. However I would have to object with your second. Consider Roger Federer in tennis, Gretzky in Hockey, Tiger in golf. Personally I think the greatest coach of all time would be Lombardi.

I did say maybe.
I think using words like greatest ever is more opinion than fact.... most of the time. Granted guys like Tiger and Michael Jordan are the exception.
However, I have a hard time saying Lombardi or any NFL coach is the greatest of all time.
The rules of the game and the game itself (schemes & strategy) have changed so drastically over the years. Look at what a difficult time Gibbs had when he came back after just 12 years away from the game. Could you imagine if Lombardi tried to coach a game this next Sunday?

Lombardi is ONE of the greatest of all time. But I think that he died of cancer and the SB trophy is named after him makes him a sentimental favorite. The NFL back in 1954-1967 was not the same game as we have now, salary cap, rules, defenses schemes.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Campbell17

First off, I agree with Defensewins with the first statement; the Patriots have the best team ever, not coach. However I would have to object with your second. Consider Roger Federer in tennis, Gretzky in Hockey, Tiger in golf. Personally I think the greatest coach of all time would be Lombardi.

Tiger is the best golfer playing right now and I agree could become the best to ever play the game. Jack N. still holds the title until Tiger knocks him off which he will probably do in the next ten year or maybe less.