Now that Favre is officially done, where does he rank all time?

[budw38]

Originally Posted by coggs

I was at football camp in the summer of 91 and 92. A bunch of NFL'ers there such as Lott, Cornelius Bennet, Bruce Smith, LT (real LT), Leonard Marshall, Jim Lachey. In the evenings they gave speeches and did Q & A's. They all said Elway was the best QB in the NFL. I will qualify that by saying that Lott was asked, "If you can't choose Montana, who would say is the best QB in the league?"

I would trust the men who played against them than as opposed to stats . Some of my friends asked Richie Petibon that question as well < he owned a resteraunt in FC , Va.> .... he answered ,Staubach, Montana , Elway , Marino and Joe Theismann . Had Gibbs been hired after Allen left ,, # 7 might be in this thread .

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by budw38

I would trust the men who played against them than as opposed to stats . Some of my friends asked Richie Petibon that question as well < he owned a resteraunt in FC , Va.> .... he answered ,Staubach, Montana , Elway , Marino and Joe Theismann . Had Gibbs been hired after Allen left ,, # 7 might be in this thread .

I'll trust what actually happened--in the case of a inconsistency (which I should mention there usually isn't)--but to each their own.

Elway's body of work suggests that he wasn't a top ten passer of all time. Players who played against him are totally entited to form opinions based on their experiences, but it's still a limited viewpoint.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I'll trust what actually happened--in the case of a inconsistency (which I should mention there usually isn't)--but to each their own.

Elway's body of work suggests that he wasn't a top ten passer of all time. Players who played against him are totally entited to form opinions based on their experiences, but it's still a limited viewpoint.

That might be true . Elway was also # 1 in a stat left out , sacked most times in a career < 516 > . Most of the qb's on this list had very solid teams , Elway went to a poor team . Elways td/int ratio improved as did his comp % his last 7 years ,,, maybe coaching < Shannahan> and a RB < Davis >. If you think stats are what make a player , Krieg , Testaverde would be top 10 . Kelly and Moon would be top 10 on td/ int ratio's and Comp % . The difference between Kelly / Moon as opposed to Montana and Elway , Montana and Elway played there best in the playoffs , Kelly and Moon played tight and threw picks . Favre threw 3 int's or more 5 times in the playoffs , lost playoff games at home to Seattle / Atlanta and NY . Can anyone in here name one playoff/Superbowl game were Montana , Marino or Elway blew a 14 pt lead , or threw 4-6 int's vs teams they should have beat ? I just go by what I witnessed over many years . Earl Campbell was the most dominant runner I have ever seen , 5 years from now he wont be 20th in yds/ career ,,, no way 20 rd's are better . B. Smith all time sack leader ,,,, LT was 10 times better pass rusher . One little trivia , what do Landry , Shula , Elway and P Manning have in common ? All of them were labled " Can't win the big one " ,,,, all will have a bust in Canton .

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by budw38

That might be true . Elway was also # 1 in a stat left out , sacked most times in a career < 516 > . Most of the qb's on this list had very solid teams , Elway went to a poor team . Elways td/int ratio improved as did his comp % his last 7 years ,,, maybe coaching < Shannahan> and a RB < Davis >. If you think stats are what make a player , Krieg , Testaverde would be top 10 . Kelly and Moon would be top 10 on td/ int ratio's and Comp % . The difference between Kelly / Moon as opposed to Montana and Elway , Montana and Elway played there best in the playoffs , Kelly and Moon played tight and threw picks . Favre threw 3 int's or more 5 times in the playoffs , lost playoff games at home to Seattle / Atlanta and NY . Can anyone in here name one playoff/Superbowl game were Montana , Marino or Elway blew a 14 pt lead , or threw 4-6 int's vs teams they should have beat ? I just go by what I witnessed over many years . Earl Campbell was the most dominant runner I have ever seen , 5 years from now he wont be 20th in yds/ career ,,, no way 20 rd's are better . B. Smith all time sack leader ,,,, LT was 10 times better pass rusher . One little trivia , what do Landry , Shula , Elway and P Manning have in common ? All of them were labled " Can't win the big one " ,,,, all will have a bust in Canton .

Yeah, well, "can't win the big one" is and has always been a misconception on the part of the guy making the assertion. There are a few buzz words in sports that when you hear them, an association is instantly made that the speaker is probably unknoledgable. "Choker" is probably the first and most telling one, but there are others.

I think it's great that pretty much all athletes that have donned the "choker" label have won a championship in their respective sports, and that people still value the concept.

[budw38]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Yeah, well, "can't win the big one" is and has always been a misconception on the part of the guy making the assertion. There are a few buzz words in sports that when you hear them, an association is instantly made that the speaker is probably unknoledgable. "Choker" is probably the first and most telling one, but there are others.

I think it's great that pretty much all athletes that have donned the "choker" label have won a championship in their respective sports, and that people still value the concept.

I think you missed my point . To much emphasis on stats or winning alone . In order to have great stats as a qb , you need coaching , OL , RD's , OL and a stout defence helps . Teams win championships , not the QB . The game is played to win , not who throws the prettiest pass or has the highest comp. % . Grossman hit close to 70% of his passes , Pennigton , Culpepper has put up some very impressive #'s . I know I watched Montana , Elway and Marino pull out near impossible wins more than the others , I do not remember seeing either of them lose a big game , that is what I see as the most important stat .