The Official draft Marcus Monk thread.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

I wouldn't take him that high... I think Mayock is overating him. I would take him between picks 25-42

And I would not touch Aqib Talib or Antoine Cason with a 10 foot pole in the first.

McKelvin and Rodgers-Cromartie I would grab with the 21st pick if they were availiable

Mayock doesn't even have him that high anymore. He dropped him out of the 1st round alltogether. Once again because of the bad 40 time. I think that people are putting too much stock into Cromartie because of his cousin and his 40 time. I wasn't even paying attention to McKelvin.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by angryssg

Mayock doesn't even have him that high anymore. He dropped him out of the 1st round alltogether. Once again because of the bad 40 time. I think that people are putting too much stock into Cromartie because of his cousin and his 40 time. I wasn't even paying attention to McKelvin.

Brandon Flowers is one of my favorite players in the draft... He also measured just 5'9" at the combine but he plays the run better then all the CB's in this draft. He plays with a mean streak an hits people. He also has great hands. He would be a steal in the 2nd round. Our 21st s too high IMO.

I think Mckelvin and Cromartie are going to be great. Both from small schools so competition level is a question... but at the post season Bowls Cromartie dominated so that's not a question anymore. Both are unreal athletes. They may be gone by 21

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

Brandon Flowers is one of my favorite players in the draft... He also measured just 5'9" at the combine but he plays the run better then all the CB's in this draft. He plays with a mean streak an hits people. He also has great hands. He would be a steal in the 2nd round. Our 21st s too high IMO.

I think Mckelvin and Cromartie are going to be great. Both from small schools so competition level is a question... but at the post season Bowls Cromartie dominated so that's not a question anymore. Both are unreal athletes. They may be gone by 21

What if Flowers ran a 4.4 or better at his pro day, would you take him with 21 then? Personally I want to see us take that Safety from Miami at 21 if he is still there.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by angryssg

What if Flowers ran a 4.4 or better at his pro day, would you take him with 21 then? Personally I want to see us take that Safety from Miami at 21 if he is still there.

Would have to see who else was on the board, I would take James Hardy if he was there before him. I like Kenny Phillips too but Safety is something we can address later, I like Zbikowski from ND in the 4th round

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

Would have to see who else was on the board, I would take James Hardy if he was there before him. I like Kenny Phillips too but Safety is something we can address later, I like Zbikowski from ND in the 4th round

What about that kid from Boston College at Strong Safety 4th or 5th round?

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by angryssg

What about that kid from Boston College at Strong Safety 4th or 5th round?

Silva has great ball skills but he looks like a LB trapped at SS
He also ran like a LB at 4.8

I would pass on him

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Overall strength is definitely a significant factor that needs to be considered in evaluating a guy's ability to play and beat press coverage. Especially a bigger guy who is not tremendously fast or quick.

Trust me. It's not that important. When Jared Allen of KC did his bench press, I think he only did 12-13 reps. And he's a top pass rushing DE in the NFL. He sure doesn't have a problem bulling over 300+ pound LT's does he? Charles Haley, one of the best pure pass rushers in his time NEVER EVER lifted weights. Randy Moss doesn't lift weights. Yet guys like Adam Archeletta can probably bench 225 a gazillion times yet he sucks at playing his position. In the end, it comes down to a guy's ability to play football.

Also there are so many other excerises that coming into play when it comes to football. Power clean, squats, hack squats, and dumbell presses. Bench pressing is just one small piece when testing a guy's overall strength.

[SkinsFanSince91]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Trust me. It's not that important. When Jared Allen of KC did his bench press, I think he only did 12-13 reps. And he's a top pass rushing DE in the NFL. He sure doesn't have a problem bulling over 300+ pound LT's does he? Charles Haley, one of the best pure pass rushers in his time NEVER EVER lifted weights. Randy Moss doesn't lift weights. Yet guys like Adam Archeletta can probably bench 225 a gazillion times yet he sucks at playing his position. In the end, it comes down to a guy's ability to play football.

Also there are so many other excerises that coming into play when it comes to football. Power clean, squats, hack squats, and dumbell presses. Bench pressing is just one small piece when testing a guy's overall strength.

That was a long time ago,, and it took a long tim ebefore J Allen got any good.

The only thing that his bench reps show me is that he is a slacker. You can't be at a D-1 school for more than 3 years and comeout doing that. He couldn't have been serious in the weight room, so what makes you think he is gonna be serious when he is getting paid.

He will just be a 6-6 version of B Lloyd.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by 30gut

In the Red Zone speed is still an essential factor in gaining separation from the defender to get open. (separation is not just vertical, but horizontal also)

Thanks for the Offense 101.

Originally Posted by 30gut

*Also you don't have to pass to score in the Red Zone. If we must throw to a 'big' receiver we can always split Cooley out wide.

Cooley is not out-jumping many NFL CBs. I don't recall him scoring on any fades since he's been here.

Originally Posted by 30gut

I think people forget the majority of productive receivers in the NFL are under 6'2 and they still seem to score inside the 20 and even inside the 10 (oh my!) and on the goalline.

Bengals- T.J. Housh- 6'1 199
Chad Johnson- 6'1 192
Colts- Gonzalez, A - 6'0 193
Harrison, M - 6'0 185
Wayne, R - 6'0 198
Pats- Welker, W - 5'9 185
Steeler-Ward,H - 6'0 205

This list is just some of the AFC teams. Should I continue?

Let's discuss, the stats are all this regular season. First, 6' 1" is not small. Not a "Big receiver" but not small and both Houz & Johnson are threats on a fade, which give them the option to run the slant more effectively (reinforcing my point).

Houz - 12 Total TDs. 2 - Between 10-20, 6 - Inside 10. Of the 6 inside the 10, 4 were inside routes.
Johnson - 8 Total TDs. 1 between 10-20, 4 - Inside 10. 2 were inside routes.
Wayne - 10 Total TDs. 0 - Between 10-20, 4 Inside 10. 2 were inside routes.
Gonzalez only scored 3 TDs all year, none in the Red Zone.
Harrison - obviously injured, but his numbers are normally similar to Wayne's.
Welker - Didn't he have Randy Moss on the outside to open things up inside?
Hines Ward - Too lazy to check.

My point is that the smaller receivers aren't usually beating the D on outside routes especially in the Red Zone. And especially in the case of Welker, look what a big receiver that can run a fade does to help the smaller, quicker guys. Steve Smith begged for Keyshawn in Carolina and Key wasn't out-running anyone at that point in his career. Again to my point....Balance.

Originally Posted by 30gut

Extra note: those 'West Coast Offense' teams Green Bay, Seattle, Tampa Bay all their receivers are short dudes

Hackett is 6'2". M. Clayton is 6'4" & Stovall is 6'5" in TB.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Trust me. It's not that important. When Jared Allen of KC did his bench press, I think he only did 12-13 reps. And he's a top pass rushing DE in the NFL. He sure doesn't have a problem bulling over 300+ pound LT's does he? Charles Haley, one of the best pure pass rushers in his time NEVER EVER lifted weights. Randy Moss doesn't lift weights. Yet guys like Adam Archeletta can probably bench 225 a gazillion times yet he sucks at playing his position. In the end, it comes down to a guy's ability to play football.

Trust me it is that important. SkinsfanSince1991 also brings up a great point about work ethic. Bench is the fastest way to determine overall upper body strength. If it didn't mean anything why do it. The scouts and coaches that get paid a bunch of $$$ to evaluate talent must think it's important or they wouldn't do it at the combine. Also, guys who bench poorly wouldn't see their draft stock drop.

[DGreene28]

Trevor laws, Here's and example of a guy taking his career seriously and displaying a great work ethic. If a guy like Marcus Monk or Calais Campbell wanted to put up averge bench press #'s for their positions they could have trained for it. The fact that they were so far behind shows a lack of preparation and committment.

02/25/08 - Trevor Laws turned on the jets during his senior 2007 season, and continued his ascension into the top 60 in Indianapolis on Monday. Although many people criticize the Combine as "guys in shorts," the relentless Laws stood out through during drills and tests. Teams saw that he can not only explode upfield, but also provide good lateral movement, body control and the ability to close on the ball. His 40s were in the 5.05-5.10 range, as expected, but the Golden Domer also showed good upper body strength on the bench press on Sunday. - Chad Reuter, NFLDraftScout.com

02/20/08 - In two months, Trevor Laws has undergone a total-body overhaul worthy of a late-night infomercial. Between lost body fat and increased weight, he has added about 30 pounds of lean muscle. He said he has bench-pressed 225 pounds, the NFL industry standard, 31 times. He sometimes works out three times a day, always eats five times a day. The change is complete. For all his trouble, the former Notre Dame defensive tackle has become an 85-year-old man. "Me and my girlfriend are probably laying down at 8:30 every night," Laws said. "My dad is making fun of me, saying I go to bed earlier than him now." Early to bed, early to rise, makes a man healthy, wealthy and ... well, that's potentially enough. Despite his team's 3-9 implosion last fall, perhaps no one on Notre Dame's roster helped himself more than Laws, who returned for a fifth season almost specifically to barrel his way onto the NFL radar screen. His team-high 112 tackles were the first step. Now the endgame to Laws' gambit is nigh at the NFL combine. "I really wish we had a winning season," Laws said. "Besides that, I'm healthy, I had a great year, a good Senior Bowl. To this point, things have pretty much gone as good as they can go for me." - Brian Hamilton, Chicago Tribune
02/11/08 - PRO POTENTIAL: DT Trevor Laws moved up the draft boards last season with his all-out effort and his knack for being around the ball. He will be looked at inside by the NFL, and he showed at the Senior Bowl an ability to penetrate with technique and quickness. A good character guy who could be a third-rounder.

[That Guy]

Originally Posted by DGreene28

Would have to see who else was on the board, I would take James Hardy if he was there before him. I like Kenny Phillips too but Safety is something we can address later, I like Zbikowski from ND in the 4th round

he wont make it to the fourth, and we don't have a 4th round pick. he'd be a great 3rd round pick though. just like trevor laws would be a great 2nd rounder.

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Trust me. It's not that important. When Jared Allen of KC did his bench press, I think he only did 12-13 reps. And he's a top pass rushing DE in the NFL. He sure doesn't have a problem bulling over 300+ pound LT's does he? Charles Haley, one of the best pure pass rushers in his time NEVER EVER lifted weights. Randy Moss doesn't lift weights. Yet guys like Adam Archeletta can probably bench 225 a gazillion times yet he sucks at playing his position. In the end, it comes down to a guy's ability to play football.

Also there are so many other excerises that coming into play when it comes to football. Power clean, squats, hack squats, and dumbell presses. Bench pressing is just one small piece when testing a guy's overall strength.

Jared Allen: "He has improved his ability to play with leverage at the point of attack, but he still does not have great strength. He is the type of player who has to win with quickness. When an offensive tackle gets his hands on him, Allen struggles to shed quickly and make plays at the left offensive side. He is not real explosive in terms of his quickness or his strength. Overall, he is a solid defensive end who gives 100 percent effort every time he steps onto the football field. . "

Allen and Haley are speed rushers so upper body strength is not a prerequisite for thier success. Moss is a guy who beats you down the sidelines with his speed and jumps over you, again strength not as important. Most players who don't have this fast twitch athleticism need to have the brute strength in oreder to compete.

[SkinsFanSince91]

The only position that bench doesnt mean squat at is Punter, Kicker, and QB.

But even as a QB, bench press tells them how strong one can stand in the pocket and not get draged down by tacklers like Drew Bledsoe, Brad Johnson, etc..

Brady Quinn did 24 reps last year

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Trust me it is that important. SkinsfanSince1991 also brings up a great point about work ethic. Bench is the fastest way to determine overall upper body strength. If it didn't mean anything why do it. The scouts and coaches that get paid a bunch of $$$ to evaluate talent must think it's important or they wouldn't do it at the combine. Also, guys who bench poorly wouldn't see their draft stock drop.

Not to sound like an expert but I lift 6 days a week, I'm 6'2 and weigh 235lbs. I train every body part twice a week and I did play football. I've built my chest up by rarely bench pressing. I prefer dumbell presses, dumbell fly's, dips, incline pushups and hammer strength machines. I never ever bench press because it's too hard on my delts and you get a better stretch in your chest using dumbells. If you saw me on the street you'd think I could bench 225 25 times but I can probably only do it 7-9 times. Just cause I can't bench a ton does that make me have a weak upper body. Why don't these guys test for squats? Lower body strength is more important for football than upperbody. To me the combine is just a waste of time.