We must draft OL early!

[SkinsFanSince91]

I don't think that this forum is even necessary. We have waaaay to many holes to fill to be drafting an O-lineman in the first round,

Plus, the poll here says that the O-Line is the LAST place where we need immediate help.

If we did just that, we'd be behind the 8-ball again at the positions we need the most.

Meanwhile, we'd be hoping that marginal, lower graded, and non-first round talent would provide larger returns than expected because we chose to address depth instead of need.

I'm sure most people would say that B. Albert would come right in and start, but we all know that he isn't going to unseat a veteran like Kendal or Thomas just because he was taken first. He would be a top-tier reserve and that's it. We would still have no pass rushing DE, no CB in case Rogers doesn't come through and Springs leave next year, and we would still have to choose from what is available after there is a sure fire run at the tall, rangy, possession-type WRs at the end of the first round.

We have one of the best O-line coaches in the business in Joe Bugel, and if he can turn Stephon Heyer, and undrafted free agent, into the player that he is now, then we can surely expect for him to do that with a lower round pick on our O-Line.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

I dont think that this forum is even necessary. We have waaaay to many holes to fill to be drafting an O-lineman in the first round,

Plus, the poll here says that the O-Line is the LAST place where we need immediate help.

If we did just that, we'd be behind the 8-ball again at the positions we need the most.

Allthewhile, we'd be hoping that marginal, lower graded, and non-first round talent would provide larger returns than expected because we chose to address depth instead of need.

Im sure most people would say that B. Albert would come right in and start, but we all know that he isnt going to unseat a veteran like Kendal or Thomas just because he was taken first. He would be a top-tier reserve and thats it. We would still have no pass rushing DE, no CB in case Rogers doesnt come thru and Springs leave next year, and we would still have to choose from what is available after there is a sure fire run at the tall, rangy, posession-type WRs at the end of the frist round.

We have one fo the best O-line coaches in the Biz, and if he can turn Stephon Heyer, and undrafted free agent, into the player that he is now, then we can surely expect for him to do that with a lower round pick on our O-Line.

IMO Albert could come in and unseat Kendall very easily. Kendall was solid but he isn't going to hold up for 16 games with his knees and age. Let me ask you this. In 05 and 07 we made the playoffs and why did we lose those games? Or what was a big reason we lost? Cause we could not move the chains and get a 1/2 a yard on 4th down and an inability to protect the passer. Both years we had injuries to the o-line and had no depth. I'm not sure what the stats are for short yardage but I'd be willing to bet that we were at the bottom at converting 3rd and 4th down with a yard or less. IMO we simply can not ignore the line anymore. Especially with the age of Thomas and Kendall.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

IMO Albert could come in and unseat Kendall very easily. Kendall was solid but he isn't going to hold up for 16 games with his knees and age. Let me ask you this. In 05 and 07 we made the playoffs and why did we lose those games? Or what was a big reason we lost? Cause we could not move the chains and get a 1/2 a yard on 4th down and an inability to protect the passer. Both years we had injuries to the o-line and had no depth. I'm not sure what the stats are for short yardage but I'd be willing to bet that we were at the bottom at converting 3rd and 4th down with a yard or less. IMO we simply can not ignore the line anymore. Especially with the age of Thomas and Kendall.

Good summary.

Albert, if he is still available, would be the best use of our first round pick. We will definately have to address D-Line this year at some point, but the second round looks like a place where a DLman who has a first round grade could fall to us...and then all of a sudden we have two "first round" picks and a great draft.

[SkinsFanSince91]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

IMO Albert could come in and unseat Kendall very easily. Kendall was solid but he isn't going to hold up for 16 games with his knees and age. Let me ask you this. In 05 and 07 we made the playoffs and why did we lose those games? Or what was a big reason we lost? Cause we could not move the chains and get a 1/2 a yard on 4th down and an inability to protect the passer. Both years we had injuries to the o-line and had no depth. I'm not sure what the stats are for short yardage but I'd be willing to bet that we were at the bottom at converting 3rd and 4th down with a yard or less. IMO we simply can not ignore the line anymore. Especially with the age of Thomas and Kendall.

The reason we lost teh '05 playoff wasnt due to poor o-lineplay. As I recall we finished the season as oneof thebest rushing teams in the league. Portis had a few 100 yd games in a row. The REAL reason we lost the game was the predictability of the playcalling. It was out of date and J Gibbs subsequently hired Al Saunders to spice up the offense.

As for 07-08, we suffered injuries ACROSS the board at CB. LB. OL, and Collins threw 2 interceptions that were returned for scores. It would be foolish to blame both loses on the Oline. In the playoffs, if you can not run and pass well you will lose.

Its great thatt u have a man-crush on B Albert and all, cuz I am the mayor of Jordy-ville, but why would u automatically assume a rookie can unseat a veteran like that. No jobs are given away in the league and especially with the Redskins ofensive line. I mean I dont even expect J Nelson to start if we get him. Eventually he CAN, but he will not receive a 1st round de facto starting position. I will say that he has thepotential to beat him in camp, but im not gonna assume he will start.

We need top tier talen at CB and DE. Period.

We can find WR and OLineman later on. If we were to take them in the first, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be protest either. Any pick can help. My philosophy is to address need int he first round, unless you have a top 15 pick/or somoen great falls to you like Randy Moss did when he came around.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

The reason we lost teh '05 playoff wasnt due to poor o-lineplay. As I recall we finished the season as oneof thebest rushing teams in the league. Portis had a few 100 yd games in a row. The REAL reason we lost the game was the predictability of the playcalling. It was out of date and J Gibbs subsequently hired Al Saunders to spice up the offense.

As for 07-08, we suffered injuries ACROSS the board at CB. LB. OL, and Collins threw 2 interceptions that were returned for scores. It would be foolish to blame both loses on the Oline. In the playoffs, if you can not run and pass well you will lose.

Its great thatt u have a man-crush on B Albert and all, cuz I am the mayor of Jordy-ville, but why would u automatically assume a rookie can unseat a veteran like that. No jobs are given away in the league and especially with the Redskins ofensive line. I mean I dont even expect J Nelson to start if we get him. Eventually he CAN, but he will not receive a 1st round de facto starting position. I will say that he has thepotential to beat him in camp, but im not gonna assume he will start.

We need top tier talen at CB and DE. Period.

We can find WR and OLineman later on. If we were to take them in the first, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be protest either. Any pick can help. My philosophy is to address need int he first round, unless you have a top 15 pick/or somoen great falls to you like Randy Moss did when he came around.

I beg to differ. In 05 R. Thomas was out & our running game suffered. This past year, the right side of the line couldn't stop Seattle's 1 on 1 pass rush. Kerney abused Heyer as expected. Can't blame the kid, he was just a rook. We were lucky that Kerney's hit on Collins was called an incomplete pass, it looked clear that it was a fumble. The reason we had some success is we went to the no huddle & kept them off guard.

I agree, DE & CB are big needs, but our O line hasn't had any real depth for a no. of years. Albert seems a better prospect than most of the guys that are likely to be there for us at #21. If we were talking about picking in the top 10 I wouldn't argue that he's worth taking, cause then we'd be able to land one of the top DEs. i.e. Albert might be the "best player available" when we pick.

[SeanTaylor21]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

I beg to differ. In 05 R. Thomas was out & our running game suffered. This past year, the right side of the line couldn't stop Seattle's 1 on 1 pass rush. Kerney abused Heyer as expected. Can't blame the kid, he was just a rook. We were lucky that Kerney's hit on Collins was called an incomplete pass, it looked clear that it was a fumble. The reason we had some success is we went to the no huddle & kept them off guard.

I agree, DE & CB are big needs, but our O line hasn't had any real depth for a no. of years. Albert seems a better prospect than most of the guys that are likely to be there for us at #21. If we were talking about picking in the top 10 I wouldn't argue that he's worth taking, cause then we'd be able to land one of the top DEs. i.e. Albert might be the "best player available" when we pick.

The only way I would draft Brandon Albert is if I was sure that Jordy Nelson would drop to us in the third round, if not I'm not sure I'd be happy using a second on him, or maybe we could trade down from our second and get some picks and get him a little later.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

The reason we lost teh '05 playoff wasnt due to poor o-lineplay. As I recall we finished the season as oneof thebest rushing teams in the league. Portis had a few 100 yd games in a row. The REAL reason we lost the game was the predictability of the playcalling. It was out of date and J Gibbs subsequently hired Al Saunders to spice up the offense.

As for 07-08, we suffered injuries ACROSS the board at CB. LB. OL, and Collins threw 2 interceptions that were returned for scores. It would be foolish to blame both loses on the Oline. In the playoffs, if you can not run and pass well you will lose.

Its great thatt u have a man-crush on B Albert and all, cuz I am the mayor of Jordy-ville, but why would u automatically assume a rookie can unseat a veteran like that. No jobs are given away in the league and especially with the Redskins ofensive line. I mean I dont even expect J Nelson to start if we get him. Eventually he CAN, but he will not receive a 1st round de facto starting position. I will say that he has thepotential to beat him in camp, but im not gonna assume he will start.

We need top tier talen at CB and DE. Period.

We can find WR and OLineman later on. If we were to take them in the first, I wouldn't be happy, but I wouldn't be protest either. Any pick can help. My philosophy is to address need int he first round, unless you have a top 15 pick/or somoen great falls to you like Randy Moss did when he came around.

Well I'm not going to argue about Gibbs' playcalling cause I didn't like it. But if you recall in 05 we had 55 year old Ray Brown playing guard and he got hurt. In comes Cory Raymer and all hell broke lose.

Yes Collins threw 2 picks but if you recall before that we couldn't sustain drives because of an inability to pick up 3rd/4th and shorts. Plus Collins was getting killed by Kerney, Pederson and co. Injuries were part of it cause we're mising Thomas and Jansen. But we couldn't over come it because of a lack of depth at the RG position. Fabini and Kendall are stop gaps. Remember the Giants game? Couldn't get any movement two plays in a row on the goaline. People can blame Betts all they want but Kendall just isn't the best option. We need a young road grader in there who is versitile. We need a guy like Raliegh Mackenzie.

I agree with the need for a DE. IMO I just think you still win games in the trenches and the NYG proved that in the SB. If we can get some guys that can rush the passer, open holes for CP and protect JC then we can take the next step.

[SkinsFanSince91]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Well I'm not going to argue about Gibbs' playcalling cause I didn't like it. But if you recall in 05 we had 55 year old Ray Brown playing guard and he got hurt. In comes Cory Raymer and all hell broke lose.

Yes Collins threw 2 picks but if you recall before that we couldn't sustain drives because of an inability to pick up 3rd/4th and shorts. Plus Collins was getting killed by Kerney, Pederson and co. Injuries were part of it cause we're mising Thomas and Jansen. But we couldn't over come it because of a lack of depth at the RG position. Fabini and Kendall are stop gaps. Remember the Giants game? Couldn't get any movement two plays in a row on the goaline. People can blame Betts all they want but Kendall just isn't the best option. We need a young road grader in there who is versitile. We need a guy like Raliegh Mackenzie.

I agree with the need for a DE. IMO I just think you still win games in the trenches and the NYG proved that in the SB. If we can get some guys that can rush the passer, open holes for CP and protect JC then we can take the next step.

Well, u r right about Raymer because I do remember that. However, like the playcalling there were several reason that we lost that game (including the droppped int for a TD by carlos rogers).

This year on 3rd and 4th and short, our playcalling was part of it too. Gibbs and AS playcalling were overly predictable and the the box was stacked because they knew we were going to run, and usually when the box is stacked with 8 men it doesnt matter how good your o-line is because there are only 5 of them.

The seahawks blitzed more to get pressure, than relying on there four man rush. The blitzing that they did do, focused on the gaps at or near PAtrick Kerney, who was wiping his @ss with Heyer(I think Jansen would have held that down much better), and that allowed him to get consistent pressure.

Regardless of how you look at it, the turnovers and the lack of matchup problems we had against there secondary really killed us. We couldn't run, our passing game was holistically inefficient, and those 2 picks hurt, bad!

As for Betts and the Giants game. All Ima say is PLAY CALLING and COACHING.

1) If/when you get down to the goal line, you have to be willing to mix it up. If I remember we ran either 3 of four times in a row, and two of those plays were the same play. We should have passed at least half of that time if we were gonna use all 4 downs.

2) If you are gonna go for it on the last play of the game, USE YOUR BEST PLAYER! Using 2nd string in a siutation like that is unacceptable. Plus, if you do go down you go down with your best talent so that no one, like I am doing now, will be able to bring that up as a reason why we lost. Even if you feel cool with Betts in there, POrtis should have gotten that last carry. I think his experience would have at least kep thim from trippin over someone's leg. After that who knows, maybe we go to the Superbowl with a diff playoff seed. Like the one the Giants had.

Overall, our O-Line play has not been an egregious flaw in our team's personnel, and to draft an OT/OG in the first would suggest that it is that flawed that we need toi use our first pick to patch it up. When in reality it would be a depth pick.

DE/CB/WR = 1st round wothry picks for us

[DGreene28]

Originally Posted by SkinsFanSince91

I don't think that this forum is even necessary. We have waaaay to many holes to fill to be drafting an O-lineman in the first round,

Plus, the poll here says that the O-Line is the LAST place where we need immediate help.

If we did just that, we'd be behind the 8-ball again at the positions we need the most.

Meanwhile, we'd be hoping that marginal, lower graded, and non-first round talent would provide larger returns than expected because we chose to address depth instead of need.

I'm sure most people would say that B. Albert would come right in and start, but we all know that he isn't going to unseat a veteran like Kendal or Thomas just because he was taken first. He would be a top-tier reserve and that's it. We would still have no pass rushing DE, no CB in case Rogers doesn't come through and Springs leave next year, and we would still have to choose from what is available after there is a sure fire run at the tall, rangy, possession-type WRs at the end of the first round.

We have one of the best O-line coaches in the business in Joe Bugel, and if he can turn Stephon Heyer, and undrafted free agent, into the player that he is now, then we can surely expect for him to do that with a lower round pick on our O-Line.

Heyer impressed last year and he may turn out to be an above average OL for the skins but he is not in the same class as Albert. Many times our offense was handcuffed because of his liabilities as a pass protector. I have no doubt Albert would take over a starting role on the skins OL next season... He's that good