Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[KB24]

Here's something no one has considered. If we want to give up two draft picks so badly for an established player, why aren't we going after Kansas City DE Jared Allen? He just turned 26, led the league in sacks with 15.5 last season and would fill a bigger need immediately on the Redskins. Oh, that's right. Chad Johnson jerseys probably would sell much better than Jared Allen ones.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by KB24

Here's something no one has considered. If we want to give up two draft picks so badly for an established player, why aren't we going after Kansas City DE Jared Allen? He just turned 26, led the league in sacks with 15.5 last season and would fill a bigger need immediately on the Redskins. Oh, that's right. Chad Johnson jerseys probably would sell much better than Jared Allen ones.

Because this isn't a college spring game. This is the NFL, you beat your opponents by scoring more points than them. Sacks do not equal points, (safety excluded) touchdowns do.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Angry

Because this isn't a college spring game. This is the NFL, you beat your opponents by scoring more points than them. Sacks do not equal points, (safety excluded) touchdowns do.

But a dominant D-Line can shut down an opponent's offense so you don't have to score as many points to win. (See NYG Superbowl win)

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

But a dominant D-Line can shut down an opponent's offense so you don't have to score as many points to win. (See NYG Superbowl win)

I understand your argument, however we already have a solid Defense that has been limiting other team's offense. We need to generate more points ourselves. If we would have scored 3-7 more points a game, we may have only lost one game last season.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Angry

I understand your argument, however we already have a solid Defense that has been limiting other team's offense. We need to generate more points ourselves. If we would have scored 3-7 more points a game, we may have only lost one game last season.

Do you mean that same solid defense that has only one bonafide pass-rusher, question marks in the secondary due to age (Springs) and injury (Rogers), and lost winnable games against Dallas, the Giants, Philly and Buffalo because it couldn't make stops?

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by KB24

Do you mean that same solid defense that has only one bonafide pass-rusher and lost winnable games against Dallas, the Giants, Philly and Buffalo because it couldn't make stops?

On the flip side of that coin we only needed 3 to 7 more points to beat each of those teams.

Our offense averaged only 20.9 PPG our D only allowed 19.4 PPG and alot of those points you cannot blame on the Defense. Our offense was not staying on the field long enough and often turned the ball over. That gave opponents favorable field position.

If we are still losing close games in a year and our Offense is putting up 24 PPG or more, then I will say that we need to upgrade the D.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Angry

On the flip side of that coin we only needed 3 to 7 more points to beat each of those teams.

Our offense averaged only 20.9 PPG our D only allowed 19.4 PPG and alot of those points you cannot blame on the Defense. Our offense was not staying on the field long enough and often turned the ball over. That gave opponents favorable field position.

If we are still losing close games in a year and our Offense is putting up 24 PPG or more, then I will say that we need to upgrade the D.

Our offense wasn't staying on the field long enough because our aging, injury-prone offensive line with little in the way of proven back-ups wasn't getting the job done. We could have, both, Chad Johnson and Anquan Bolden at the wide out positions. It won't matter if the line can't open holes for Portis an Betts consistently, or keep Campbell upright long enough to get the ball to Moss and Company. Yes, the offense needs upgrades, but it has to start with the line.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by Angry

On the flip side of that coin we only needed 3 to 7 more points to beat each of those teams.

Our offense averaged only 20.9 PPG our D only allowed 19.4 PPG and alot of those points you cannot blame on the Defense. Our offense was not staying on the field long enough and often turned the ball over. That gave opponents favorable field position.

If we are still losing close games in a year and our Offense is putting up 24 PPG or more, then I will say that we need to upgrade the D.

I understand the stats you are quoting. But Campbell's development and Zorn's offense will be the determining factor in improved offensive production. CJ will not lift the average scoring output by himself. If Campbell doesn't develop, or we have injury issues on an aging OL this deal is basically worthless.

Our defense, while playing well in the latter part of the year after they abandoned the Cover 2, has some glaring issues; a young strong-side DE is needed, DT who can collapse the pocket, LB depth, young shut-down corner, Safety depth.

CJ is a talented WR, one of the better ones in the NFL, but we have so many issues to address and the offensive development doesn't hinge on a star WR right now. It hinges on Zorn, Campbell, a healthy OL and healthy Portis. If one of those components has a problem it basically negates any benefit CJ would bring. Then we've given up a 1st this year and 3rd in 2009 for a 31 yr. old WR whose production could be in decline and whose attitude may have created problems with team chemistry. Risk & price too high, reward too low.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

Here's something no one has considered. If we want to give up two draft picks so badly for an established player, why aren't we going after Kansas City DE Jared Allen? He just turned 26, led the league in sacks with 15.5 last season and would fill a bigger need immediately on the Redskins. Oh, that's right. Chad Johnson jerseys probably would sell much better than Jared Allen ones.

Your jersey 'logic' is getting a little tired. Jared Allen is a very good player, but the Vikings are also willing to give up a 1st for him and they pick four spots ahead of us. Also, despite how much you clearly dislike Chad Johnson, he has never been suspended for multiple DUI's ... if you're so concerned with character why would you advocate picking up a guy who has no problem putting other people's lives at risk or (if you want to take a crass strictly football perspective) is one strike away from getting the Goddell smackdown?

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Your jersey 'logic' is getting a little tired. Jared Allen is a very good player, but the Vikings are also willing to give up a 1st for him and they pick four spots ahead of us. Also, despite how much you clearly dislike Chad Johnson, he has never been suspended for multiple DUI's ... if you're so concerned with character why would you advocate picking up a guy who has no problem putting other people's lives at risk or (if you want to take a crass strictly football perspective) is one strike away from getting the Goddell smackdown?

The Vikings made it a point to do their homework and Allen has been very contrite about how he's made mistakes and is owning up to them. Chad is constantly talking about me, me, me, I want to get paid. At least Allen will fill a bigger need immediately. We're not a player away from a Super Bowl and Chad Johnson by himself isn't going to get us there.

Bottom line. With a new head coach on board, we need to build a corps of "young players" instead of trading away picks for players in their '30s who may or may not help us.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by KB24

The Vikings made it a point to do their homework and Allen has been very contrite about how he's made mistakes and is owning up to them. Chad is constantly talking about me, me, me, I want to get paid. At least Allen will fill a bigger need immediately. We're not a player away from a Super Bowl and Chad Johnson by himself isn't going to get us there.

Bottom line. With a new head coach on board, we need to build a corps of "young players" instead of trading away picks for players in their '30s who may or may not help us.

HOW is picking a DE when you already have a strong D-Line doing your homework? The Vikings have a mediocre offense, that would be right down terrible if it wasn't for Adrian Peterson. Their passing game is non-existent, they have a below average QB and no WRs whatsoever. I'm sorry but your CJ bashing is making you make no sense.

Oh and way to overlook the fact that Allen (according to what some have posted) had a DUI. So ur telling me a guy that talks wayy too much is worst than a guy that got busted for a DUI? Please.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

HOW is picking a DE when you already have a strong D-Line doing your homework? The Vikings have a mediocre offense, that would be right down terrible if it wasn't for Adrian Peterson. Their passing game is non-existent, they have a below average QB and no WRs whatsoever. I'm sorry but your CJ bashing is making you make no sense.

Oh and way to overlook the fact that Allen (according to what some have posted) had a DUI. So ur telling me a guy that talks wayy too much is worst than a guy that got busted for a DUI? Please.

Well, to be fair Udeze and possibly James are both out for the year. And they did sign Berrian this off-season.

However, the point about the DUI cannot be overlooked. And to think that's better than a guy whose worst offense is that he talks too much is stupid.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

HOW is picking a DE when you already have a strong D-Line doing your homework? The Vikings have a mediocre offense, that would be right down terrible if it wasn't for Adrian Peterson. Their passing game is non-existent, they have a below average QB and no WRs whatsoever. I'm sorry but your CJ bashing is making you make no sense.

Oh and way to overlook the fact that Allen (according to what some have posted) had a DUI. So ur telling me a guy that talks wayy too much is worst than a guy that got busted for a DUI? Please.

I didn't "overlook" his DUI. If you go back and read what I posted, I talked about Allen's mistakes and how he admitted what he did was stupid. Since that time, he's been a model citizen and an excellent player.

I bash CJ because of his me-first attitude, an attitude that can disrupt the locker room. Plus, given the woes of the offensive line, having a play-making receiver like Chad isn't going to matter. We need to keep our picks and build a foundation, much like the Caps have done over the last few years. We don't have that foundation and Chad Johnson by himself won't make us a Super Bowl winner.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by KB24

I didn't "overlook" his DUI. If you go back and read what I posted, I talked about Allen's mistakes and how he admitted what he did was stupid. Since that time, he's been a model citizen and an excellent player.

I bash CJ because of his me-first attitude, an attitude that can disrupt the locker room. Plus, given the woes of the offensive line, having a play-making receiver like Chad isn't going to matter. We need to keep our picks and build a foundation, much like the Caps have done over the last few years. We don't have that foundation and Chad Johnson by himself won't make us a Super Bowl winner.

Well sorry about missing that, this thread was wayyy too long and I arrived late at the party. However, my whole issue with "building a foundation" is that if we wait to develop these young players that we are building upon, Portis, Santana, ARE and our entire offensive line will be too old to make us a contender. The team needs to figure out a way to move past the first round of the playoffs, and have a strong offense that will allow us to win those games were we end up losing by a few points. If we talk about building a foundation for the future, then we might us well give up any chances for the playoff and get into a rebuilding mode.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

Well sorry about missing that, this thread was wayyy too long and I arrived late at the party. However, my whole issue with "building a foundation" is that if we wait to develop these young players that we are building upon, Portis, Santana, ARE and our entire offensive line will be too old to make us a contender. The team needs to figure out a way to move past the first round of the playoffs, and have a strong offense that will allow us to win those games were we end up losing by a few points. If we talk about building a foundation for the future, then we might us well give up any chances for the playoff and get into a rebuilding mode.

But, haven't we been doing this very thing since 2000? Getting veteran players to "win now" instead of waiting "to develop these young players that we are building upon?" That very strategy you mentioned has netted us a grand total of one playoff win during that time. I want to see the Redskins win just as much as you do. But, it's obvious the way they've been trying to do it just isn't working. Maybe it's time to start from scratch and build for the future. Remember, we have a new -- not to mention first-time -- head coach and a young quarterback who has to learn yet another offensive system. Chances are, there are going to be growing pains and it will take a couple of years to really learn this system. Wouldn't it be smarter to build for the future when the system can be executed to the point where the Redskins offense will be a bigger threat?