Offer made on Chad (1st rd '08, conditional 3rd rd '09)

[MTK]

I think some people are really overstating our OL issues. This was a unit that suffered through some pretty tough injuries last year and the kind that you can't necessarily chalk up to a player being "injury prone". That said regardless of what we do with the #21 pick, the OL is still likely to be a position of priority throughout the draft. So it's not as if we can't address the line if we trade away one pick.

Plus, WR is a need regardless of whether it's addressed through trade or by the draft.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I think some people are really overstating our OL issues. This was a unit that suffered through some pretty tough injuries last year and the kind that you can't necessarily chalk up to a player being "injury prone". That said regardless of what we do with the #21 pick, the OL is still likely to be a position of priority throughout the draft. So it's not as if we can't address the line if we trade away one pick.

Plus, WR is a need regardless of whether it's addressed through trade or by the draft.

But, how about the fact that each of your starting O-line members are in their '30s, one is playing on two arthritic knees, two others are coming off season-ending injuries. Add to the equation, there's only one quality back-up and we had to move a guy from defense to offense because we had no depth? Do we just "hope" that we can get through again? That line is a year older and, because of that, the chances of injury are very good. I'd rather use ALL of our picks to get younger and build depth. This is something that's been missing from this team for quite a while and it's come back to haunt us quite a bit. WR is a need, but not as big as the need that exists on our lines.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by KB24

But, how about the fact that each of your starting O-line members are in their '30s, one is playing on two arthritic knees, two others are coming off season-ending injuries. Add to the equation, there's only one quality back-up and we had to move a guy from defense to offense because we had no depth? Do we just "hope" that we can get through again? That line is a year older and, because of that, the chances of injury are very good. I'd rather use ALL of our picks to get younger and build depth. This is something that's been missing from this team for quite a while and it's come back to haunt us quite a bit. WR is a need, but not as big as the need that exists on our lines.

I'm not sure what you are missing but I said that OL is likely to be a high priority this weekend. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take at least 2 offensive lineman.

Are you suggesting they should use all 9 picks on the OL?? That's slightly absurd.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I'm not sure what you are missing but I said that OL is likely to be a high priority this weekend. I wouldn't be surprised to see them take at least 2 offensive lineman.

Are you suggesting they should use all 9 picks on the OL?? That's slightly absurd.

Absolutely, not. I'm just saying we need to be wiser when it comes to using our picks and I'd rather see us use them on young, hungry players with something to prove than a 30-something receiver who, while elite, may relax once he gets his money. I also think you make this kind of trade if we're a player away from being a contender and we're just not there.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by KB24

Absolutely, not. I'm just saying we need to be wiser when it comes to using our picks and I'd rather see us use them on young, hungry players with something to prove than a 30-something receiver who, while elite, may relax once he gets his money. I also think you make this kind of trade if we're a player away from being a contender and we're just not there.

I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.

Not only am I against Johnson, I just look at the big picture. He'd be a GREAT weapon to have on any offense and I don't doubt his talent. But, on a team like the Redskins, which is full of holes, I just don't see how an elite receiver will help us overcome them, should our older offensive line have another rash of injuries with no back-ups on the roster to come in and if our defensive line can't rush the passer consistently. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to see us use this rare bounty of higher picks we have to get some young, hungry guys we can groom and be ready to come in if needed. Keep in mind, there were plenty of occasions where Chris Cooley had to stay in to block because the o-line wasn't getting it done. I'd rather have him in the secondary, creating mismatches and opening things up for the other receivers.

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by KB24

Not only am I against Johnson, I just look at the big picture. He'd be a GREAT weapon to have on any offense and I don't doubt his talent. But, on a team like the Redskins, which is full of holes, I just don't see how an elite receiver will help us overcome them, should our older offensive line have another rash of injuries with no back-ups on the roster to come in and if our defensive line can't rush the passer consistently. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to see us use this rare bounty of higher picks we have to get some young, hungry guys we can groom and be ready to come in if needed. Keep in mind, there were plenty of occasions where Chris Cooley had to stay in to block because the o-line wasn't getting it done. I'd rather have him in the secondary, creating mismatches and opening things up for the other receivers.

For anyone keeping score at home. You have now posted 31 messages in this thread, and 8 messages in the "Ocho Stinko" thread. Meaning 31% of your posts to date have been finding ways to say you don't want Chad Johnson on the team. Are there really 39 different ways to say that?

Edit: For the sake of fairness, I have now posted 16 times in this mind-numbing thread, or nearly 2% of my total post count. "Every time I think I'm out they pull me back in ..."

[MTK]

Originally Posted by KB24

Not only am I against Johnson, I just look at the big picture. He'd be a GREAT weapon to have on any offense and I don't doubt his talent. But, on a team like the Redskins, which is full of holes, I just don't see how an elite receiver will help us overcome them, should our older offensive line have another rash of injuries with no back-ups on the roster to come in and if our defensive line can't rush the passer consistently. As I mentioned earlier, I'd prefer to see us use this rare bounty of higher picks we have to get some young, hungry guys we can groom and be ready to come in if needed. Keep in mind, there were plenty of occasions where Chris Cooley had to stay in to block because the o-line wasn't getting it done. I'd rather have him in the secondary, creating mismatches and opening things up for the other receivers.

Alright we're going in circles again. Let's just say we traded for Johnson. With 8 picks remaining, why could we not still address the lines and bring in hungry young players as you say and in theory have the best of both worlds?? I'm just not understanding your logic.

Acquiring CJ would not mean that the draft is doomed.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

I get it, you're against Johnson and that's fine and completely understandable. I just didn't understand why you seemed to be trying to insinuate that by trading that pick we wouldn't be able to address the OL.

because some people are adament that we use the first pick on a O-lineman or a DE/DL. I wonder how they will feel if a WR is picked in the draft. or a Safety.

Some people want youth. So they are against an older WR.

Some people are worried about the chemistry. Like CJ will come in here and this whole team is going to blow up...ie; Arrington. Just like how he blew up the defense and the teams sucked after. Oh wait that didn't happen. Maybe I meant Archelleta.....wait, no he didn't blow up the team either. I know I meant Lloyd because most of the 49er fans said he would come in and destroy what we had and they were glad to get rid of him...wait that didn't happen either.

Sometimes having chemistry means leaving a team that has none and going to a team that has it...ie; Randy Moss, T.O. . What happens if we do get CJ and he's a scoring machine and enables Moss and Randel El or Cooley to score more points simply because teams have to double him? Will we still be on the forget CJ bandwagon?

OL-Bugel is the best a developing OL. He doesn't need the 1st round pick.
DE/DL-At this point any big body will do. Someone to spell our starters.
CB/S-We can find in the 3rd round. Big draft class.
WR-The Skins have not faired well in drafting WR. Hixon is not a developer.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by KB24

Absolutely, not. I'm just saying we need to be wiser when it comes to using our picks and I'd rather see us use them on young, hungry players with something to prove than a 30-something receiver who, while elite, may relax once he gets his money. I also think you make this kind of trade if we're a player away from being a contender and we're just not there.

I'd rather use the pick on a 30-something WR who has proven himself and is a pro bowl player then to make a guess at who the next T.O., Williams, or CJ is going to be in this yrs draft who ultimatly turns out to be a bust. Imagine spending the money a #21 will get on one of the 3 we let go from last yrs draft. Hell we did just as good if not better with the invites after the draft. Marcus Mason will turn out to be something someday if not with us then with another team and Heyer is better then most of us thought. Let Bugel develope him this year and see how he does. As a matter of fact I believe most of the Redskins histroy with O-lineman is that they were not the top pick. Bugel has a way of developing O-lineman. Take a look at the Hogs. None of them if I recall were 1st round draft picks.

Yes the line protects the QB to give him time to get the ball off, but it's also the QB who has to get the ball off pior to the rush getting to him. Which is why he is supposed to notice the rush and call a play for a check down if needed. I'll also point out that our O-line was doing fine prior to Gibbs picking up Saunders. Then I believe there was a difference in blocking schemes. More so then we all thought. Why don't we run the ball like Denver? because Denver uses smaller lineman who are faster so they use zone blocking. Gibbs always liked the big smash mouth lineman which is usually a little slower, but better for man blocking. Pick your poison. I think if we can get our run blocking scheme back prior to Saunders and utilize Zorn's unknown passing offense (which we all hope is better then Saunders) then we should be alright. We do need back ups to our line now but don't think they are going to draft someone and stick him on the line come Sept. thats not how Bugel has worked. The only reason Heyer was put in was because of injuries. He is younger and probably faster then Janson.

[KB24]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'd rather use the pick on a 30-something WR who has proven himself and is a pro bowl player then to make a guess at who the next T.O., Williams, or CJ is going to be in this yrs draft who ultimatly turns out to be a bust. Imagine spending the money a #21 will get on one of the 3 we let go from last yrs draft. Hell we did just as good if not better with the invites after the draft. Marcus Mason will turn out to be something someday if not with us then with another team and Heyer is better then most of us thought. Let Bugel develope him this year and see how he does. As a matter of fact I believe most of the Redskins histroy with O-lineman is that they were not the top pick. Bugel has a way of developing O-lineman. Take a look at the Hogs. None of them if I recall were 1st round draft picks.

Yes the line protects the QB to give him time to get the ball off, but it's also the QB who has to get the ball off pior to the rush getting to him. Which is why he is supposed to notice the rush and call a play for a check down if needed. I'll also point out that our O-line was doing fine prior to Gibbs picking up Saunders. Then I believe there was a difference in blocking schemes. More so then we all thought. Why don't we run the ball like Denver? because Denver uses smaller lineman who are faster so they use zone blocking. Gibbs always liked the big smash mouth lineman which is usually a little slower, but better for man blocking. Pick your poison. I think if we can get our run blocking scheme back prior to Saunders and utilize Zorn's unknown passing offense (which we all hope is better then Saunders) then we should be alright. We do need back ups to our line now but don't think they are going to draft someone and stick him on the line come Sept. thats not how Bugel has worked. The only reason Heyer was put in was because of injuries. He is younger and probably faster then Janson.

But, other than Heyer, who else do we have? Also, our line is older than what it was BEFORE Saunders. I don't doubt Bugel's coaching abilities. I just think the bounty of draft picks is an opportunity to find some young talent we just don't have for depth right now.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by KB24

But, how about the fact that each of your starting O-line members are in their '30s, one is playing on two arthritic knees, two others are coming off season-ending injuries. Add to the equation, there's only one quality back-up and we had to move a guy from defense to offense because we had no depth? Do we just "hope" that we can get through again? That line is a year older and, because of that, the chances of injury are very good. I'd rather use ALL of our picks to get younger and build depth. This is something that's been missing from this team for quite a while and it's come back to haunt us quite a bit. WR is a need, but not as big as the need that exists on our lines.

Great point. The line issues hurt us badly in playoff losses to Seattle in 05 and 07. Time to address the issue.