Riley steps down as Heat coach

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

It's like you didn't even read what I wrote. Am I on your ignore list or something?

Yes, I responded to you.

You are trying to say that Van Gundy took the Heat to the conference finals...well that wasn't good enough. That's what I'm saying. That was considered a failure, not a success. You are implying it was a success.

Again, Riley took them to the finals with less talent, Van Gundy had more talent and couldn't take them to the finals.

So did I misinterpret you or something?

It takes a lot for me to put someone on the ignore list. A LOT! (only 1 in all the time I've been here)

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

Yes, I responded to you.

You are trying to say that Van Gundy took the Heat to the conference finals...well that wasn't good enough. That's what I'm saying. That was considered a failure, not a success. You are implying it was a success.

Again, Riley took them to the finals with less talent, Van Gundy had more talent and couldn't take them to the finals.

So did I misinterpret you or something?

It takes a lot for me to put someone on the ignore list. A LOT! (only 1 in all the time I've been here)

I don't see how Riley took them with less talent. Van Gundy got them from 25 wins to 42 wins to 59 wins (and a game 7 conference finals loss). Then the next season he was fired after 21 games in spite of the fact that Shaq (probably the most dominant player in the game at the time) missed 18 of those games.

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I don't see how Riley took them with less talent.

I believe Eddie Jones and Damon Jones (.432 3 pt%) to be better players than Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker for instance. Walker was probably THE most overrated player I ever saw in my entire life, and possibly the most overrated player in history.
Van Gundy had better role players. I am still surprised a team with Payton on it won it all. Then again, Gary took a major back seat role with Riley, so that's a good reason.

Van Gundy got them from 25 wins to 42 wins to 59 wins (and a game 7 conference finals loss).

Riley took them from 32 to 42 to 61...what's your point?
Point is, Van Gundy SHOULD have won it all, and he didn't. It took Riley's coaching ability to get it done no matter how you want to slice it.

Then the next season he was fired after 21 games in spite of the fact that Shaq (probably the most dominant player in the game at the time) missed 18 of those games.

Shaq only averaged 20.0 and 9.2 boards that season. He also had a pathetic 46.9% FT percentage. Also had 2.8 turnovers a game on average (high for a center), and a very high 3.9 fouls per game. It's not like Chicago losing Jordan, or the Celts losing Bird, or LA losing Magic...or even Kobe. I understand the point, but Van Gundy still had an unstoppable Wade.

Again, Van Gundy's heat was EXPECTED to win it all, and underacheived, while Riley actually won it all. Can't really complain about that. If we kicked Gibbs out after say a 5-5 season, and hired anyone and that coach took us to a SB victory, I would care less that we fired Gibbs regardless of circumstance. EVERY decision a team makes should have one goal in it's sights...winning it all. Riley did it, Van Gundy didn't. It's that simple. And it's not like Van Gundy didn't have his shot. He did, and blew it.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I believe Eddie Jones and Damon Jones (.432 3 pt%) to be better players than Jason Williams, and Antoine Walker for instance. Walker was probably THE most overrated player I ever saw in my entire life, and possibly the most overrated player in history.
Van Gundy had better role players. I am still surprised a team with Payton on it won it all. Then again, Gary took a major back seat role with Riley, so that's a good reason.

Ok, well that's just your opinion versus mine

Riley took them from 32 to 42 to 61...what's your point?
Point is, Van Gundy SHOULD have won it all, and he didn't. It took Riley's coaching ability to get it done no matter how you want to slice it.

I wasn't knocking Riley's coaching abilities, just saying don't ignore what Van Gundy had accomplished and wasn't given the opportunity to complete

Shaq only averaged 20.0 and 9.2 boards that season. He also had a pathetic 46.9% FT percentage. Also had 2.8 turnovers a game on average (high for a center), and a very high 3.9 fouls per game. It's not like Chicago losing Jordan, or the Celts losing Bird, or LA losing Magic...or even Kobe. I understand the point, but Van Gundy still had an unstoppable Wade.

Not so much now, but back then just Shaq's mere presence on the court made his teammates better

Again, Van Gundy's heat was EXPECTED to win it all, and underacheived, while Riley actually won it all. Can't really complain about that. If we kicked Gibbs out after say a 5-5 season, and hired anyone and that coach took us to a SB victory, I would care less that we fired Gibbs regardless of circumstance. EVERY decision a team makes should have one goal in it's sights...winning it all. Riley did it, Van Gundy didn't. It's that simple. And it's not like Van Gundy didn't have his shot. He did, and blew it.

Fine. But if Zorn took us to an OT loss in the NFC championship game this year and then next year we get off to a 5-5 start with Portis missing 8 of the games and then fire Zorn, I think it'd be ridiculous to say Zorn was a failure or underachiever

[jsarno]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Fine. But if Zorn took us to an OT loss in the NFC championship game this year and then next year we get off to a 5-5 start with Portis missing 8 of the games and then fire Zorn, I think it'd be ridiculous to say Zorn was a failure or underachiever

I only quoted the above part because I agree with your other comments.

The above quoted comments stopped too early though. (assuming your scenario) If, let's say Cowher, took over for Zorn after he was fired, and Cowher took us to a SB win, would it matter what happened to Zorn? Especially assuming we had the widely regarded best team in the NFC the year before.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by jsarno

I only quoted the above part because I agree with your other comments.

The above quoted comments stopped too early though. (assuming your scenario) If, let's say Cowher, took over for Zorn after he was fired, and Cowher took us to a SB win, would it matter what happened to Zorn? Especially assuming we had the widely regarded best team in the NFC the year before.

Let's look at it this way. I think you said once your wife is an HR director at some college or something like that. Ok, let's suppose instead that she's the head coach for the women's basketball team at the University of New Mexico. In her first year with the team they go from a 3-27 record the year before she became head coach to a 16-14 record. Then in year two, she gets them to a 24-6 record and they lose in the NCAA Women's Tournament Semifinals. Then in year three, her star player goes down in game two of the season and they get off to a 5-4 start and she gets fired.

You wouldn't be upset about that? You wouldn't think that was a bit unfair?