Alternative Minimum Tax

[SC Skins Fan]

There are myriad problems with your post, beginning with the fact that you are clearly drawing from a highly partisan site operating under the guise of being strictly looking at 'the issues'. I'm running off to the gym so don't have time to respond in full, but briefly ...

1) Universal health care and "socialized medicine" are not synonymous. Providing citizens with health care coverage - and Obama is going light on this issue by not even discussing a single-payer plan - does not mean that doctors work for the government. It means the government pays the bill. Currently I pay $5,000+ a year to be on my wife's health insurance, and my deductibles are such that I really can't get any real meaningful medical treatment without paying out of pocket anyway. Basic point is that you should get your information from a less partisan source. When you start seeing phrases like "socialized medicine" and "government bureacrats" that is a tell-tale sign you are probably getting a slanted view.

2) I hate it when I see some guy in a beat up truck with a "Fair Tax" bumper sticker. Taxing consumption is a regressive form of taxation. Quite simply, people who don't make a ton of money (such as myself) spend nearly their entire income. People who make lots of money do not, they save, invest, etc. This is why people fought for progressive tax structures at the beginning of the century. Tax reform is necessary, but taxing consumption is not the answer.

3) I really should try to avoid the 'Parking Lot'.

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

Here's what Obama and McCain plan to do about our tax situation:

Obama - Roll back the Bush tax cuts, increase Capital Gains to at least 20%, possibly 28%, cut taxes for families making under $ 75K, keep estate taxes. He is on record as voting for keeping the AMT as is, and against removing the Estate Tax. With a Democratic majority in both Houses of Congress we will pay more in taxes under Obama.

Barack Obama on Tax Reform

Obama is also pushing "Universal Health Care" aka "Socialized Medicine" which will push our tax burden even higher and have our health care system managed by government bureacrats. Imagine needing a medical procedure but having to make a "political contribution" to get it done. This is common in countries with socialized medical systems.

McCain - committed to push legislation to permanently repeal the AMT. McCain is committed to reducing other taxes as well.

McCain Staging Site

Our current situation is this; there is a huge disparity in who pays the lion's share of taxes in this country. My numbers may be slightly off, but the top 1% of wage earners pay 34% of the taxes in the US. The next 9% pay another 33% and the rest pay the final 33%. The top 50% of wage earners pay approximately 97% of the taxes.

The top 1% made 14% of the total income yet paid 34% of the tax burden. The bottom 50% earned 14% of the total income, yet only paid about 3% of the tax burden.

What do we do? FairTax. Americans For Fair Taxation: FairTax is a consumption based tax so you basically "pay-to-play".

1) FairTax will eliminate corporate taxes bringing millions of jobs back the the U.S.
2) FairTax takes the power away from Congress of giving tax breaks to favored groups or companies.
3) Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
4) Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities.
5) Abolishes the IRS and repeals the 16th Ammendment.

We also need to be more involved in holding our political leaders accountable and greatly reduce "pork" spending. We need to get rid of congresspeople who hide $ 90K in their freezers, or build "bridges to nowhere", or appropriate millions to family and associates. This stuff is happening on both sides of the aisle and needs to be stopped.

Impose Term Limits - 8 years for Reps, 12 years for Senators.

Our government is supposed to serve the people, not the people serving the government. The more control (taxes, regulations) given to government the more it will take, until we are a socialist state. If we look at the government's power from 1900-1950 vs. 1950 to now, we are much further down the path to socialism than many believe. As few nudges upward in the tax rate and a few expansions in government programs and our tax burden would be close to 50%.

P.S. The current administration has been as much to blame for this as any Democrat.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

There are myriad problems with your post, beginning with the fact that you are clearly drawing from a highly partisan site operating under the guise of being strictly looking at 'the issues'. I'm running off to the gym so don't have time to respond in full, but briefly ...

The facts are what they are. The positions I stated for Obama and McCain are their positions based on quotes directly from them. What difference does it make what site the facts came from if they are correct?

1) Universal health care and "socialized medicine" are not synonymous. Providing citizens with health care coverage - and Obama is going light on this issue by not even discussing a single-payer plan - does not mean that doctors work for the government. It means the government pays the bill. Currently I pay $5,000+ a year to be on my wife's health insurance, and my deductibles are such that I really can't get any real meaningful medical treatment without paying out of pocket anyway. Basic point is that you should get your information from a less partisan source. When you start seeing phrases like "socialized medicine" and "government bureacrats" that is a tell-tale sign you are probably getting a slanted view.

I was referring to the broader term of "socialized medicine", which means the government administering and paying for the program but the doctor's & hospitals being independent. I didn't mean that the doctors and hospitals would be government entities. Either way, my point is that if Universal Health Care or socialized medicine is pushed through it will create a massive tax burden on the American taxpayer. Each person should be responsible for their own health care, not the government. I agree with government oversight to prevent abuse or negligence, but not control.

I understand the high cost of insurance. I pay a significant amount also. I also have seen the problems of Medicare first hand. When my father was very sick prior to passing away, my mother was working and had insurance that covered him. When he hit 65, the insurance company was able to drop his coverage because he was forced to Medicare. When this happened the benefits dropped greatly. The quality of the health care we receive will definitely decline under a government managed system. Government rarely does a better job than private industry at anything.

2) I hate it when I see some guy in a beat up truck with a "Fair Tax" bumper sticker. Taxing consumption is a regressive form of taxation. Quite simply, people who don't make a ton of money (such as myself) spend nearly their entire income. People who make lots of money do not, they save, invest, etc. This is why people fought for progressive tax structures at the beginning of the century. Tax reform is necessary, but taxing consumption is not the answer.

You should look into the program rather than use the beat-up truck, red-neck generalization. The Fair Tax is designed to put the money of the American people back in their pockets and take the power away from Washington. Imagine getting your whole paycheck back rather than the reduced amount from taxes taken out. That paycheck you earned is yours, not the government's. In the Fair Tax program there are also "pre-bate" checks sent out to families to cover the taxes that would be paid on basic necessities.

The Fair Tax also effectively taxes the underground economy of illegal activities and illegal immigrants.

The payroll tax is actually a regressive tax. The Fair Tax is not. Check out the link for an explanation.

Americans For Fair Taxation:

[SC Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by Slingin Sammy 33

You should look into the program rather than use the beat-up truck, red-neck generalization. The Fair Tax is designed to put the money of the American people back in their pockets and take the power away from Washington. Imagine getting your whole paycheck back rather than the reduced amount from taxes taken out. That paycheck you earned is yours, not the government's. In the Fair Tax program there are also "pre-bate" checks sent out to families to cover the taxes that would be paid on basic necessities.

The Fair Tax also effectively taxes the underground economy of illegal activities and illegal immigrants.

The payroll tax is actually a regressive tax. The Fair Tax is not. Check out the link for an explanation.

Americans For Fair Taxation:

Why would I go to an advocacy group to find out information about a program? Admittedly, I spoke without a detailed knowledge of to proposal (partially because it is more complicated than advocates would admit), but if I am going to go look for information I'd rather go someplace like this:

FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax

Sorry for breaking into the AMT discussion, but I find it frustrating when highly partisan information is presented as simply "the facts". It actually does matter where you get your information from and when I see code words like "socialized medicine" and "fair taxation" I become pretty skeptical of the source of information. You should too.

[Schneed10]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Why would I go to an advocacy group to find out information about a program? Admittedly, I spoke without a detailed knowledge of to proposal (partially because it is more complicated than advocates would admit), but if I am going to go look for information I'd rather go someplace like this:

FactCheck.org: Unspinning the FairTax

Sorry for breaking into the AMT discussion, but I find it frustrating when highly partisan information is presented as simply "the facts". It actually does matter where you get your information from and when I see code words like "socialized medicine" and "fair taxation" I become pretty skeptical of the source of information. You should too.

This is just a post in a show of support for what SC Skins Fan is saying. Media bias is prevalent even in the major networks, who employ journalists who pledge to report the facts and remain neutral. Political bias still manages to creep into their reporting.

Interpreting bias and identifying each source's slant is critical to obtaining reliable information. In this age when anyone can post anything on the internet, interpreting this bias is critical when searching the web for information.

In the end, if you link to or reference biased information, it's your credibility that ultimately suffers.

FactCheck is an excellent, unbiased source of information.

[Slingin Sammy 33]

Originally Posted by SC Skins Fan

Sorry for breaking into the AMT discussion, but I find it frustrating when highly partisan information is presented as simply "the facts". It actually does matter where you get your information from and when I see code words like "socialized medicine" and "fair taxation" I become pretty skeptical of the source of information. You should too.

I want to address what you and Schneed have mentioned, without going down the rathole of arguing detailed points of Fair Tax, tax policy, or politcal philosophies. I do completely understand media & political bias.

I want to clarify a couple things about my original post:

1) I didn't cut & paste from a highly partisan website. What I said in the post are my views & opinions, based on facts listed in the early part of the post. The part of my post below "What do we do?" wasn't intended to represent fact. It is my opinion of what we should do. Perhaps I should've been a bit more clear.

2) The first part of my post describing what Obama & McCain plan to do about our tax situation is fact and based on direct quotes, or in the case of McCain, a direct link to his website. The numbers & statistics are correct, how they are interpreted is a lengthy discussion, but the numbers themselves are correct.

3) The part of the post about Obama & health care are my words. But, they are based in fact and I don't believe they are up for debate. Obama is pushing "Universal Health Care". It will push our tax burden higher and, if passed into law, our health care system would be managed by government bureacrats.

The below two sentences weren't intended to be represented as facts but are very realistic and do happen. "Imagine needing a medical procedure but having to make a "political contribution" to get it done. This is common in countries with socialized medical systems."

I understand a couple of the terms "socialized medicine" and "bureaucrat" have negative connotations, but they are both used accurately in the context of what I've stated.

4) The website I linked to is definitely an advocacy site for the Fair Tax program. It accurately lists what Fair Tax proposes, what supporters see as advantages, and responses to common criticisms of the program. In evaluating your support or opposition for this, or any program, I would want to gather information both pro & con and then third-party info and make an evaluation. My point in linking to the Fair Tax site was to give a bit more information on the program and show that the ideas proposed are not from the redneck, "beat up truck" crowd.

No matter what, at least we agree that Cowboys fans with no connection to Texas suck.