Redskins trade for Jason Taylor (updated)

[skinsnut]

Here are my thoughts

1. We paid too much with a 2nd and a 6th....I dont know what that amounts too by draft points...but its probably close to a low 1st for 2 years max.

2. The other problem with giving up a 1st day pick is this....that was the pick we needed for a long term DE...yes, you can say we can do this with our 1st...but cmon....we need a CB and those go high...we also need DT and Oline pretty bad...not to mention LB's.

3. I am now concerned about running D...Daniels was no sack master...but he sure did well against the run....perhaps evans can help out but do you really want AC or JT on the bench?....what we need now is a STUD DT and a solid OLB to cover for Griffen and Rocky....to me...the needs just went up there.

4. Looking back a couple years, we had ZERO pass rushing...then we got AC...who initially looked weak.....now....we have 4 pass rushing specialists at the DE position (Carter, Taylor, Wilson, EJames, not to mention MWashington at LB)
This means our weakness is now stopping the run...we will have to do that with DT's and LB's almost exclusively....say what you want about Daniels...but he played DT and DE....and that is a great 2 for 1 deal...we still need to replace him.

5 This one really pisses me off.....our training staff.....last year we lost tons of guys for cramps and muscle pulls...injuries attributable to hydration and stretching.....NOW we lose 2 guys that arguably could have been avoided if they were loosened up more.
I dont blame the training staff....but...this is definately a trend that has not stopped which almost killed our season last year.

6 I love the fact that JT did that dancing thing....why? because he is flexible and has zero body fat...that means he's fit and unlikely to suffer bogus "freak" non contact injuries.

Even though the cons include a weaker run d and a loss of a very valuable 2nd rounder, I hesitantly approve due to the fact that there was NO ALTERNATIVE.
But I am still pissed at the training staff for sucking so bad.

[irish]

Any Skins fan should know that the Skins do not worry about giving away draft picks and developing their own depth. Like I said in a previous post I wish they had a player they drafted ready to step in but its not how the Skins do things. I doubt this philosophy will change anytime soon.

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Here are my thoughts

1. We paid too much with a 2nd and a 6th....I dont know what that amounts too by draft points...but its probably close to a low 1st for 2 years max.

2. The other problem with giving up a 1st day pick is this....that was the pick we needed for a long term DE...yes, you can say we can do this with our 1st...but cmon....we need a CB and those go high...we also need DT and Oline pretty bad...not to mention LB's.

3. I am now concerned about running D...Daniels was no sack master...but he sure did well against the run....perhaps evans can help out but do you really want AC or JT on the bench?....what we need now is a STUD DT and a solid OLB to cover for Griffen and Rocky....to me...the needs just went up there.

4. Looking back a couple years, we had ZERO pass rushing...then we got AC...who initially looked weak.....now....we have 4 pass rushing specialists at the DE position (Carter, Taylor, Wilson, EJames, not to mention MWashington at LB)
This means our weakness is now stopping the run...we will have to do that with DT's and LB's almost exclusively....say what you want about Daniels...but he played DT and DE....and that is a great 2 for 1 deal...we still need to replace him.

5 This one really pisses me off.....our training staff.....last year we lost tons of guys for cramps and muscle pulls...injuries attributable to hydration and stretching.....NOW we lose 2 guys that arguably could have been avoided if they were loosened up more.
I dont blame the training staff....but...this is definately a trend that has not stopped which almost killed our season last year.

6 I love the fact that JT did that dancing thing....why? because he is flexible and has zero body fat...that means he's fit and unlikely to suffer bogus "freak" non contact injuries.

Even though the cons include a weaker run d and a loss of a very valuable 2nd rounder, I hesitantly approve due to the fact that there was NO ALTERNATIVE.
But I am still pissed at the training staff for sucking so bad.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by skinsnut

Here are my thoughts

1. We paid too much with a 2nd and a 6th....I dont know what that amounts too by draft points...but its probably close to a low 1st for 2 years max.

2. The other problem with giving up a 1st day pick is this....that was the pick we needed for a long term DE...yes, you can say we can do this with our 1st...but cmon....we need a CB and those go high...we also need DT and Oline pretty bad...not to mention LB's.

3. I am now concerned about running D...Daniels was no sack master...but he sure did well against the run....perhaps evans can help out but do you really want AC or JT on the bench?....what we need now is a STUD DT and a solid OLB to cover for Griffen and Rocky....to me...the needs just went up there.

4. Looking back a couple years, we had ZERO pass rushing...then we got AC...who initially looked weak.....now....we have 4 pass rushing specialists at the DE position (Carter, Taylor, Wilson, EJames, not to mention MWashington at LB)
This means our weakness is now stopping the run...we will have to do that with DT's and LB's almost exclusively....say what you want about Daniels...but he played DT and DE....and that is a great 2 for 1 deal...we still need to replace him.

5 This one really pisses me off.....our training staff.....last year we lost tons of guys for cramps and muscle pulls...injuries attributable to hydration and stretching.....NOW we lose 2 guys that arguably could have been avoided if they were loosened up more.
I dont blame the training staff....but...this is definately a trend that has not stopped which almost killed our season last year.

6 I love the fact that JT did that dancing thing....why? because he is flexible and has zero body fat...that means he's fit and unlikely to suffer bogus "freak" non contact injuries.

Even though the cons include a weaker run d and a loss of a very valuable 2nd rounder, I hesitantly approve due to the fact that there was NO ALTERNATIVE.
But I am still pissed at the training staff for sucking so bad.

With a good season that #2 pick could be a mid to lower round 2nd. As for the 6th who cares, that's a toss in.

Daniels got tangled up and landed awkwardly on his knee... not sure what stretching could have done to avoid that. Shit like that happens all the time.

As for Buzbee I'm not sure how he got hurt exactly but again, I'm not sure what amount of stretching can do to prevent a blown out achilles.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

With a good season that #2 pick could be a mid to lower round 2nd. As for the 6th who cares, that's a toss in.

Daniels got tangled up and landed awkwardly on his knee... not sure what stretching could have done to avoid that. Shit like that happens all the time.

As for Buzbee I'm not sure how he got hurt exactly but again, I'm not sure what amount of stretching can do to prevent a blown out achilles.

Great points, I was about to respond with the same exact thing..

For all of the naysayers, what else would you have preferred the Redskins to do?

1. Go into the season with Demetric Evans as your starting DE? He's been in the league for 6 years, if he was a starting caliber player-he'd be starting!

2. Sign a street free agent? Simeon Rice is the best available, but there again, there's a reason why these guys are on the street in late July.

3. Wait for Erasmus James? This would be a bigger gamble than trading away picks. He's never been healthy and when he was healthy he wasn't a world beater. If he's able to add something to the defense, that's a bonus-but it would be irresponsible for the FO to count on that happening and wait to see how it played out.

I won't argue with those who say DE should have been addressed in the draft because there's nothing that can be done about it now.. We made the best move for our scenario, getting a better all around player who is 18 months YOUNGER than the player he replaced!

[MTK]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Great points, I was about to respond with the same exact thing..

For all of the naysayers, what else would you have preferred the Redskins to do?

1. Go into the season with Demetric Evans as your starting DE? He's been in the league for 6 years, if he was a starting caliber player-he'd be starting!

2. Sign a street free agent? Simeon Rice is the best available, but there again, there's a reason why these guys are on the street in late July.

3. Wait for Erasmus James? This would be a bigger gamble than trading away picks. He's never been healthy and when he was healthy he wasn't a world beater. If he's able to add something to the defense, that's a bonus-but it would be irresponsible for the FO to count on that happening and wait to see how it played out.

I won't argue with those who say DE should have been addressed in the draft because there's nothing that can be done about it now.. We made the best move for our scenario, getting a better all around player who is 18 months YOUNGER than the player he replaced!

I agree, there's nothing we can do to change the draft now so there's no sense in crying about it.

At least we had the cap room to pull this move off.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

1. Go into the season with Demetric Evans as your starting DE? He's been in the league for 6 years, if he was a starting caliber player-he'd be starting!

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

My thoughts exactly. Why the hell is Evans even on the damn team in the first place? Just to be a back-up? I think we would've been just fine with Evans starting and then have James and Wilson back him up along with the 7th rounder Jackson in the mix.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

My thoughts exactly. Why the hell is Evans even on the damn team in the first place? Just to be a back-up? I think we would've been just fine with Evans starting and then have James and Wilson back him up along with the 7th rounder Jackson in the mix.

YES!!!!! Do you guys not comprehend the concept of backups? There's no team that has 30 starting caliber players! There are starters and backups. Like there are bosses and secretaries. Not everyone is at the level to be a starter in the NFL. For whatever reason-lack of strength, speed, stamina, whatever-Evans is NOT a starter in the NFL.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

YES!!!!! Do you guys not comprehend the concept of backups? There's no team that has 30 starting caliber players! There are starters and backups. Like there are bosses and secretaries. Not everyone is at the level to be a starter in the NFL. For whatever reason-lack of strength, speed, stamina, whatever-Evans is NOT a starter in the NFL.

This is pretty ridiculous. Not the fact that there are starters and backups on every team. That much is obvious. What I find ridiculous is the notion that players can't move between the designations in your mind: once a player is a backup, he's a backup for life, and if he's a starter, he's earned a starting job for life.

Demetric's been a pretty good backup, which means on about 27 teams in the NFL, if the starter goes down, he gets first crack to prove he can hold the fort...as a starter. We apparently aren't one of those 27 teams.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

YES!!!!! Do you guys not comprehend the concept of backups? There's no team that has 30 starting caliber players! There are starters and backups. Like there are bosses and secretaries. Not everyone is at the level to be a starter in the NFL. For whatever reason-lack of strength, speed, stamina, whatever-Evans is NOT a starter in the NFL.

Of couse I do. Last year the back up QB for this team played better than the starter. Ryan Grant came in off the bench and played better than any the GB starters. Betts came in and played just as good as Portis did in 06. Willie Parker was undrafted FA and came in off the bench when Bettis got hurt. Tom Brady came in for Bledsoe. Need I go on???? Cause I could be here all day talking about back-ups who just needed a chance.

My point is every single year a back-up or an unknown player comes in and shocks everyone. Derek Anderson is another the perfect example.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

Wow, do you try to be negative all the time or does it just come naturally?

How are we 'forfeiting the entire season' by getting a better, younger player than the one he replaced? Has ANYONE said that Evans would be a suitable replacement?

How can anyone project that a 2nd and 6th round picks will cost us 2-3 wins over a 3 year span? How many games did Taylor Jacobs win us? He was a 2nd round pick. How about Nehemiah Broughton? He was a 6th round pick.

The gaps in logic are mind blowing!!

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Wow, do you try to be negative all the time or does it just come naturally?

How are we 'forfeiting the entire season' by getting a better, younger player than the one he replaced? Has ANYONE said that Evans would be a suitable replacement?

How can anyone project that a 2nd and 6th round picks will cost us 2-3 wins over a 3 year span? How many games did Taylor Jacobs win us? He was a 2nd round pick. How about Nehemiah Broughton? He was a 6th round pick.

The gaps in logic are mind blowing!!

Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I also think you need to be more careful when you read (or maybe I need to be more careful when I write). The team could have just plugged in Evans, but they felt that was a worst case scenario (so they went out and got Taylor). I'm only questioning their logic that Evans would have been a worst case scenario.

It's going to cost us games in the future because we're old. The idea is that if we use the 2nd round pick wisely, we could improve the team in the long run, which we can't do now. 2-3 wins in a 3 year span isn't a big deal, I don't think, but it's still sort of mortgaging the future.

Also, good work assuming that every 2nd and 6th round pick will net talent the equivalent of Taylor Jacobs and Nemo. That's pretty pessimistic of you.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I also think you need to be more careful when you read (or maybe I need to be more careful when I write). The team could have just plugged in Evans, but they felt that was a worst case scenario (so they went out and got Taylor). I'm only questioning their logic that Evans would have been a worst case scenario.

It's going to cost us games in the future because we're old. The idea is that if we use the 2nd round pick wisely, we could improve the team in the long run, which we can't do now. 2-3 wins in a 3 year span isn't a big deal, I don't think, but it's still sort of mortgaging the future.

Also, good work assuming that every 2nd and 6th round pick will net talent the equivalent of Taylor Jacobs and Nemo. That's pretty pessimistic of you.

It read as if we were forfeiting the season by trading for Taylor so my mistake if it was misinterpreted. I don't know that they felt that putting Evans in there was a worst case scenario, it was just obvious that Taylor was a better case scenario! Look, it's not like they traded 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks for a scrub. Right player, right situation, right price. It's a winning deal.

I wasn't assuming that every 2nd and 6th pick equates to Jacobs or Nemo, just pointing out that it's not a guarantee that they will pan out, reflecting your 2-3 win argument.

Yes building thru the draft is ideal, but in a scenario where you can get one of the top players at his position in the game to fill an immediate need for a reasonable price, you do it, every time.

[memphisskin]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Sorry, but you're wrong here.

I also think you need to be more careful when you read (or maybe I need to be more careful when I write). The team could have just plugged in Evans, but they felt that was a worst case scenario (so they went out and got Taylor). I'm only questioning their logic that Evans would have been a worst case scenario.

It's going to cost us games in the future because we're old. The idea is that if we use the 2nd round pick wisely, we could improve the team in the long run, which we can't do now. 2-3 wins in a 3 year span isn't a big deal, I don't think, but it's still sort of mortgaging the future.

Also, good work assuming that every 2nd and 6th round pick will net talent the equivalent of Taylor Jacobs and Nemo. That's pretty pessimistic of you.

I agree with you on the draft pick, it is costly. But I think it was the lesson of last year, when we assumed we could just plug Todd Wade in at guard and Buges would "coach 'em up." We are in essence spending tomorrow's 2nd and 6th round picks for a DE because we did not spend them at any time in the past. Maybe now we'll start focusing on the trenches on draft day, make some unsexy picks, like guard or tackle, instead of the splashy wide outs and 2nd tight ends.

[hail_2_da_skins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This one.

Where I come from, the concept of depth means that when your team sustains injuries, you turn over to your depth and ask them to play a bigger role for you.

The Redskins, on the other hand, turn to their depth and say, "Demetric, you know we like you and all, it's just that...we'd much rather forfeit the entire season than see you at LDE on opening night. Keep doing your thing, buddy."


Are you telling me that Demetric Evans isn't capable of being a decent two down player in the NFL? If that's the case, why have him on the roster at all?

I do hope the extra half (.5) to a full (1.0) win that Taylor delivers over Daniels this season is significant -- because it's probably going to cost us 2-3 wins from 2010 to 2012.

Picking up Jason Taylor says nothing about Demetric Evans ability to play. When you lose two players for the season at the same position, you have to act quickly and fill those roster spots. It just so happen that a former All-Pro is available. It makes sense to me to upgrade at that position. I would say that Jason Taylor is an upgrade over a healthy Phillips McDaniel. Demetric Evans still has a big role on this team and will have plenty of opportunities to contribute. The combination of Taylor and Carter will allow the Redskins to get a push from both ends in their base defense, something they didn't get in the past few seasons. They always had to go to a pass rushing specialist in obvious passing situations.