Our lack of a secondary receiver is killing us

[drew54]

Originally Posted by theJBexperience

We already wasted three 2nd rounders.

Sad to say, but I agree, but only for this year. With the bad knee on Kelly, maybe we should have just put him on IR. Fred Davis..... Thomas.....

[The Goat]

You're def right about a 2nd threat @ receiver S but... I think it's only one of the major problems on offense. What we're witnessing IMHO is a total offensive collapse (over the last 4 games). Dallas is not a great defense, period, and we could not do anything. Like others have said it all starts with the line and ours is evidently not an NFL caliber line. Jansen is an embarrassment to RT everywhere. Rabach looks more weak and indecisive every game. Kendall and Thomas are mediocre. Samuels is having his worst season in many years. Most plays are "busted" within a split second of the snap because of the line. Then it comes down to JC making something happen (because every d is going to key on the running back from now on and dare us to put the ball in the air). Campbell has regressed significantly over the last month, probably in part to the struggles along the line but some of the responsibility rests on his shoulders. Very bad passes to Moss and Ports two weeks ago and then several more very bad decisions tonight. It is clear watching on tv Zorn is to his limit w/ Campbell.

Finally... the receiving corp is pitiful. Absolutely pitiful. The shame here is that the same group was pitiful @ the end of last season, with Keenan and Reche making contributions. Now those guys are gone and what we have is one legit receiver who everyone keys on. Meanwhile, teams all over the NFL are getting huge production from rookie wide outs and TEs. The offense is rotten from the ground up and at some point there has to be some serious analysis (within the franchise) why year after year the production is not there.

[DynamiteRave]

Originally Posted by The Goat

You're def right about a 2nd threat @ receiver S but... I think it's only one of the major problems on offense. What we're witnessing IMHO is a total offensive collapse (over the last 4 games). Dallas is not a great defense, period, and we could not do anything. Like others have said it all starts with the line and ours is evidently not an NFL caliber line. Jansen is an embarrassment to RT everywhere. Rabach looks more weak and indecisive every game. Kendall and Thomas are mediocre. Samuels is having his worst season in many years. Most plays are "busted" within a split second of the snap because of the line. Then it comes down to JC making something happen (because every d is going to key on the running back from now on and dare us to put the ball in the air). Campbell has regressed significantly over the last month, probably in part to the struggles along the line but some of the responsibility rests on his shoulders. Very bad passes to Moss and Ports two weeks ago and then several more very bad decisions tonight. It is clear watching on tv Zorn is to his limit w/ Campbell.

Finally... the receiving corp is pitiful. Absolutely pitiful. The shame here is that the same group was pitiful @ the end of last season, with Keenan and Reche making contributions. Now those guys are gone and what we have is one legit receiver who everyone keys on. Meanwhile, teams all over the NFL are getting huge production from rookie wide outs and TEs. The offense is rotten from the ground up and at some point there has to be some serious analysis (within the franchise) why year after year the production is not there.

Good post. Didn't know what you mean by this line though.. Like he's fed up with him? Or he's doing all he can to get positive production out of him and nothing's working?

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by DynamiteRave

Good post. Didn't know what you mean by this line though.. Like he's fed up with him? Or he's doing all he can to get positive production out of him and nothing's working?

You said exactly what I meant - I think Zorn is both fed up and still racking his brain to get better execution. The real clue for me was Zorn remarks about JC after the Pitt game. Very blunt... Jason made bad throws that cost a drive and an INT. My guess is we'll hear more of the same after tonight. Zorn looked furious after our final drive tonight. On 2 plays Campbell made very lousy throws and was not under immediate pressure. In both situations he could have run for yardage or just run to by some time. I just think Zorn expects more out of JC, fairly or unfairly.

[Beemnseven]

Originally Posted by The Goat

You said exactly what I meant - I think Zorn is both fed up and still racking his brain to get better execution. The real clue for me was Zorn remarks about JC after the Pitt game. Very blunt... Jason made bad throws that cost a drive and an INT. My guess is we'll hear more of the same after tonight. Zorn looked furious after our final drive tonight. On 2 plays Campbell made very lousy throws and was not under immediate pressure. In both situations he could have run for yardage or just run to by some time. I just think Zorn expects more out of JC, fairly or unfairly.

On the fourth down play to Moss, Portis was wide open underneath, but Campbell was focused on Moss -- who wouldn't have made the 1st down even if he caught it.

[Twilbert07]

Originally Posted by Beemnseven

On the fourth down play to Moss, Portis was wide open underneath, but Campbell was focused on Moss -- who wouldn't have made the 1st down even if he caught it.

You're exactly right. Campbell needed to look off Moss and find a hot read. It happened a couple times last night. Romo schooled our QB on this front.
Of course, it helped that Romo had a good running game in the second half, too.

Bottom line is our offense is pretty bad at this pont.

[GTripp0012]

No depth at WR and no depth on the OL means that you have to rely on your offensive backfield to do everything. And right now, our superstar RB is injured, and our Franchise QB isn't seeing the field as well as he should be (and I think the hits he is taking have a lot to do with how he's seeing the field).

[GTripp0012]

Remember how our offense is awesome with Sellers on the field? This isn't a mistake. The only formation that works for us right now is 2 WR, 2 RB, 1 TE, or the "I formation." Sellers at FB is so much more valuable than anything Thrash or Devin Thomas can give us.

[LOGAN]

My biggest problem with the Randle El is that he dives to the ground too much, then he gets up smiling. We're vastly overpaying him for doning absolutely nothing. I call him Randle Fell because on punts that's all he does is fall down.

I think Thomas will emerge as a legit reciever next season onece he gets his growing pains out of the way we'll be fine.

[sportscurmudgeon]

Can we put the "new coach/new system" to bed for a while, please? If you want to cling to it like a security blanket, go ahead; but here are a few facts that might get in your way.

The Detroit Lions - - yes the ones that are 0-10 and have stunk out the league for the last 8 years - - also have a:

1. New offensive system (Mike Martz is gone this year)

2. Have used 4 (FOUR) different quarterbacks this year (no continuity)

3. Have only one WR worth anything.

4. Have no RB who could beat out Portis or Betts absent injuries. (maybe not even Rock?)

5. A tight end that only fantasy football geeks would be able to identify AND

6. An offensive line whose only offensive characteristic is its body odor.


THOSE Detroit Lions have scored more TDs this year than the Washington Redskins. Go look it up.


By Week Eleven, good players on good teams have figured out what the scheme is and how the plays need to be run and blocked. Now it's a matter of execution.

The Redskins returned EVERY starter from last year's team to the squad and last year's team went to the playoffs. If you want to attribute mistakes and hiccoughs in the exhibition games to a "new coach/new system", that's fine. You can probably justify that for a few regular season games too - - maybe even the first four...

But by now, that excuse has worn thin. A team coming off a playoff season and with playoff aspirations this year should have more TDs for the season than the dog-breath Detroit Lions. Period!

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Can we put the "new coach/new system" to bed for a while, please? If you want to cling to it like a security blanket, go ahead; but here are a few facts that might get in your way.

The Detroit Lions - - yes the ones that are 0-10 and have stunk out the league for the last 8 years - - also have a:

1. New offensive system (Mike Martz is gone this year)

2. Have used 4 (FOUR) different quarterbacks this year (no continuity)

3. Have only one WR worth anything.

4. Have no RB who could beat out Portis or Betts absent injuries. (maybe not even Rock?)

5. A tight end that only fantasy football geeks would be able to identify AND

6. An offensive line whose only offensive characteristic is its body odor.


THOSE Detroit Lions have scored more TDs this year than the Washington Redskins. Go look it up.


By Week Eleven, good players on good teams have figured out what the scheme is and how the plays need to be run and blocked. Now it's a matter of execution.

The Redskins returned EVERY starter from last year's team to the squad and last year's team went to the playoffs. If you want to attribute mistakes and hiccoughs in the exhibition games to a "new coach/new system", that's fine. You can probably justify that for a few regular season games too - - maybe even the first four...

But by now, that excuse has worn thin. A team coming off a playoff season and with playoff aspirations this year should have more TDs for the season than the dog-breath Detroit Lions. Period!

Well, I was gonna go on a rant, and then I read your post. Well said. All I have to say is I emphatically second your opinion. Great comparison with Detroit, too. To think they have more TDs than we do is just.... so many adjectives... I guess unacceptable is the best one to use....

[53Fan]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Can we put the "new coach/new system" to bed for a while, please? If you want to cling to it like a security blanket, go ahead; but here are a few facts that might get in your way.

The Detroit Lions - - yes the ones that are 0-10 and have stunk out the league for the last 8 years - - also have a:

1. New offensive system (Mike Martz is gone this year)

2. Have used 4 (FOUR) different quarterbacks this year (no continuity)

3. Have only one WR worth anything.

4. Have no RB who could beat out Portis or Betts absent injuries. (maybe not even Rock?)

5. A tight end that only fantasy football geeks would be able to identify AND

6. An offensive line whose only offensive characteristic is its body odor.


THOSE Detroit Lions have scored more TDs this year than the Washington Redskins. Go look it up.


By Week Eleven, good players on good teams have figured out what the scheme is and how the plays need to be run and blocked. Now it's a matter of execution.

The Redskins returned EVERY starter from last year's team to the squad and last year's team went to the playoffs. If you want to attribute mistakes and hiccoughs in the exhibition games to a "new coach/new system", that's fine. You can probably justify that for a few regular season games too - - maybe even the first four...

But by now, that excuse has worn thin. A team coming off a playoff season and with playoff aspirations this year should have more TDs for the season than the dog-breath Detroit Lions. Period!

Tell it like it is!

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Can we put the "new coach/new system" to bed for a while, please? If you want to cling to it like a security blanket, go ahead; but here are a few facts that might get in your way.

The Detroit Lions - - yes the ones that are 0-10 and have stunk out the league for the last 8 years - - also have a:

1. New offensive system (Mike Martz is gone this year)

2. Have used 4 (FOUR) different quarterbacks this year (no continuity)

3. Have only one WR worth anything.

4. Have no RB who could beat out Portis or Betts absent injuries. (maybe not even Rock?)

5. A tight end that only fantasy football geeks would be able to identify AND

6. An offensive line whose only offensive characteristic is its body odor.


THOSE Detroit Lions have scored more TDs this year than the Washington Redskins. Go look it up.


By Week Eleven, good players on good teams have figured out what the scheme is and how the plays need to be run and blocked. Now it's a matter of execution.

The Redskins returned EVERY starter from last year's team to the squad and last year's team went to the playoffs. If you want to attribute mistakes and hiccoughs in the exhibition games to a "new coach/new system", that's fine. You can probably justify that for a few regular season games too - - maybe even the first four...

But by now, that excuse has worn thin. A team coming off a playoff season and with playoff aspirations this year should have more TDs for the season than the dog-breath Detroit Lions. Period!

Which is why I can't understand why everyone is directing their anger toward 3 rookies.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Which is why I can't understand why everyone is directing their anger toward 3 rookies.

Well, I think a majority of the ire today is being directed at the right side of our offensive line. Which is where the ire should be drawn.

And the people who are blaming the rookies aren't blaming the rookies as much as their blaming the people who selected the rookies in the draft. Which, IMO is fair.

I disagree with the people who are lumping all three rookies in as busts because they haven't contributed yet. But we have problems all over the offense, and as I said on draft day Smoot, we NEEDED to rely on these picks. We drafted heavily at a position that usually takes a while to develop. So if we couldn't rely on the starters, our offense would be in trouble.

Well, here we are. And you and I both know that a lot of criticism that the team gets on this board after a loss is only offered because of the loss, and that's unfair. But win or lose, a lot of the criticism is very warranted, and we can't ignore that.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Can we put the "new coach/new system" to bed for a while, please? If you want to cling to it like a security blanket, go ahead; but here are a few facts that might get in your way.

The Detroit Lions - - yes the ones that are 0-10 and have stunk out the league for the last 8 years - - also have a:

1. New offensive system (Mike Martz is gone this year)

2. Have used 4 (FOUR) different quarterbacks this year (no continuity)

3. Have only one WR worth anything.

4. Have no RB who could beat out Portis or Betts absent injuries. (maybe not even Rock?)

5. A tight end that only fantasy football geeks would be able to identify AND

6. An offensive line whose only offensive characteristic is its body odor.


THOSE Detroit Lions have scored more TDs this year than the Washington Redskins. Go look it up.


By Week Eleven, good players on good teams have figured out what the scheme is and how the plays need to be run and blocked. Now it's a matter of execution.

The Redskins returned EVERY starter from last year's team to the squad and last year's team went to the playoffs. If you want to attribute mistakes and hiccoughs in the exhibition games to a "new coach/new system", that's fine. You can probably justify that for a few regular season games too - - maybe even the first four...

But by now, that excuse has worn thin. A team coming off a playoff season and with playoff aspirations this year should have more TDs for the season than the dog-breath Detroit Lions. Period!

Part of the reason for this touchdown discrepancy is that the Lions are MARKEDLY better than us in one phase of the game of football: special teams. Thanks to their defense totally sucking, they play their special teams units a lot, and that gets them in much better position to score touchdowns than our offense would be under the exact same circumstances.

So in saying what you are saying, you do have to acknowledge that when you isolate the other two sides of football from the game, our offense is significantly better than theirs. Obviously.

Still, the comparison of offensive firepower is a good one, and puts our woes into perspective...so long as we can keep it in context. We can run and pass way better than the Lions can. Thusly our offense is significantly better. However, if the point is that we need to score more touchdowns to make the playoffs, you'll have no argument from me.