Editorial: Why the Redskins aren't an Elite Team

[Drift Reality]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

SS also argues frequently that it's not like we don't have any talent on the defensive lines. Anthony Montgomery is like having a young Kris Jenkins (playing out of scheme and everything!), Kedric Golston is like having a young Corneilius Griffin, Corneilius Griffin is like having an old (and still largely effective) Corneilius Griffin. Andre Carter would start at DE for every team in the NFL. Demetric Evans would for most. A healthy Jason Taylor -- as bad as he is against the run -- would still start for most teams at DE. Even though a lot of our talent on the DL is aging, it's certainly there.

A line of Griffin/Alexander, Montgomery, Evans, and Jason Taylor isn't going to defend the run for long, so we've got to get Golston and Carter healthy fast.

I agree. I think we do have some talented players on the defensive line however I don't think we have one player who is really a flat out beast like a Tuck at DE or a guy like Rogers in the middle.

[A10sROCK]

Drafting for the OL or DL is unglamorous; yet essential to the long-term success of the team.

The Redskins have had a long-term aversion of over 10 years to using premium draft picks for the trenches - as stated so well in this editorial. Our team's overall record over these years has reflected that neglect.

A good OL makes every QB and RB look better. A good DL makes every DB and turnover % look better.

I hope that Vinny/Zorn will bite the bullet this off season and draft for the trenches. We won't regret it, although the payoff doesn't happen overnight. Some modest FA acquisitions in both areas will also add to this philosophy change.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

Drafting for the OL or DL is unglamorous; yet essential to the long-term success of the team.

The Redskins have had a long-term aversion of over 10 years to using premium draft picks for the trenches - as stated so well in this editorial. Our team's overall record over these years has reflected that neglect.

A good OL makes every QB and RB look better. A good DL makes every DB and turnover % look better.

I hope that Vinny/Zorn will bite the bullet this off season and draft for the trenches. We won't regret it, although the payoff doesn't happen overnight. Some modest FA acquisitions in both areas will also add to this philosophy change.

I don't think we really have a choice at this point. I think we have to draft HEAVY in the trenches, particularly on offense.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I don't think we really have a choice at this point. I think we have to draft HEAVY in the trenches, particularly on offense.

You, I, Matt, Pennskinfan, Spence and most every other internet rat may believe that to the core. However, the real people who have to make that paradigm shift is Vinny and Zorn. It's very easy to go for the flash positions - as we have for a decade.

It's a lot harder to draft a 330 lb 2-gap DT in your #1 draft pick in 2009......

[SouperMeister]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

You, I, Matt, Pennskinfan, Spence and most every other internet rat may believe that to the core. However, the real people who have to make that paradigm shift is Vinny and Zorn. It's very easy to go for the flash positions - as we have for a decade.

It's a lot harder to draft a 330 lb 2-gap DT in your #1 draft pick in 2009......

And we will get an eyeful of just such a player Sunday night versus Baltimore. If Haloti Ngata isn't the best D-tackle in only his 2nd season in the league, he will be shortly. The guy will probably add a year or two to Ray Lewis's career.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Drift Reality

I agree. I think we do have some talented players on the defensive line however I don't think we have one player who is really a flat out beast like a Tuck at DE or a guy like Rogers in the middle.

I'm just finishing watching the Giants game right now. I think Montgomery is going to be a hall of famer.

He's not a complete player yet (he's not great in space), but I think he IS an every down player.

[A10sROCK]

Originally Posted by SouperMeister

And we will get an eyeful of just such a player Sunday night versus Baltimore. If Haloti Ngata isn't the best D-tackle in only his 2nd season in the league, he will be shortly. The guy will probably add a year or two to Ray Lewis's career.

When I look back at great players like Charles Mann and Dexter Manley I just wonder how we got away from going for those sort of trench players. Then we end up over-paying guys like Bruce Smith to play until they are 41 years old.......

I remember arguing with ppl on the WP website about Terrance Suggs [drafted by the ratbirds] and why we should draft him. When the OL and DL are good, the whole team will play well!

This team has drafted everything backwards for a decade.

[Mr.Redskin]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Good article, nice to see the shoutout to here

just a few errors I caught, not trolling, just know as a writer I like to minimize these

I find great irony in that b/c TRYFUHL in its self is not a word. In fact seeing your name posted plays some weird mind game and I read it dylsexicly thinking it says "TRULYAWFUL" I don't know just wanted to share with ya'll

[quote=TheSmurfs22;506397]It is going to take us a few seasons to learn from the mistakes of our past, specifically in overspending for Free Agents and passing up on draft choices.QUOTE]

Now that is a voice of reason that I have been crying myself to sleep for far too long. Good thing GTripp is there to comfort me with ....

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I think Montgomery is going to be a hall of famer.
He's not a complete player yet (he's not great in space), but I think he IS an every down player.

I don't know whether to laugh or admit that Monty is essential for us to stop the run but its his TYPE of calibur we need to be a franchise guy, like WILFORK or Shawn Rogers.

Originally Posted by diehardskin2982

I disagree with the assessment that teams are just more talented than us. I like to argue that the "elite" teams have brought into the coaches systems more. Look at the Giants, Patriots, Colts, and Steelers all have tenured coaches with players that have brought into the coaches schemes. we will get better if we continue this aproach of keeping players and coaches

No, agree with the assessment if you will. Talent than, really doesn't matter if its not executed. We might as well hang our hats on that our uniforms are clean and smell pretty on gamedays. There is no competition for being talented. Its Sunday or whatever day of the game how good is your product that is put on the field. Does that make sense? for the Giants,pats,colts,and steelers have coaches they stuck with is a choice all teams have. We are so dumb to change the formula and touch the wet paint that at the end of each year we need to cleanup again. I view talent as worth investing in we change it up so much maybe its b/c we haven't built winning players to be here and only look at the puzzle from 1 perspective. Cerrato's one eye that is crossed and Snyders i don't know - I think he just stares at himself in the mirrror all day repeating I am the F'N man.

Which is what I will be doing when I read below..at the sig....

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Mr.Redskin

Now that is a voice of reason that I have been crying myself to sleep for far too long. Good thing GTripp is there to comfort me with ....



I don't know whether to laugh or admit that Monty is essential for us to stop the run but its his TYPE of calibur we need to be a franchise guy, like WILFORK or Shawn Rogers.

I was being hyperbolic about the HOF thing, but yeah, he's ridiculously dominant on the interior, as long as we can keep him out of space, we'll be good. You pretty much have to throw screens to beat Montgomery as he doesn't feel plays well.

Problem is, he and Golston play the exact same position, so I don't think we're going to resign both after their RFA years. And if Blache is still the coordinator, I think Montgomery walks and becomes a pro bowl player elsewhere. Probably Jacksonville.

[Mr.Redskin]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I was being hyperbolic about the HOF thing, but yeah, he's ridiculously dominant on the interior, as long as we can keep him out of space, we'll be good. You pretty much have to throw screens to beat Montgomery as he doesn't feel plays well.

Problem is, he and Golston play the exact same position, so I don't think we're going to resign both after their RFA years. And if Blache is still the coordinator, I think Montgomery walks and becomes a pro bowl player elsewhere. Probably Jacksonville.

Good call, GWIlliams did start Monty over Golston. Golston has lost stock to me this year. We need huge run stuffers b/c they pose as a being a problem even on run plays if we have a guy taken a double a blitzing MLB or LL can come shooting up the middle.

Thats why Ray Lewis Lobbied so hard for Ngata out of Oregon. He ate up double teams. Monty sort of demands that but with 2 fat boys we could cause some trouble. We need the PRE-Subway Jared to compliment Monty. I will patrole the neighborhoods in search.

[BrunellMVP?]

I could not agree more...
we have to start in the middle of the lines and work our way out. For the past 10 years, we've been consumed with obtaining the sexy players at skill positions...I'm convinced that if we spend an entire on the o and d-line, we'd be a better team. That clearly would have been the case this year. I hope we give it a shot.

[charlielyons]

One reason the skins are NOT an elite team is the FO offseason approach for the last 10 years. they have tried to develop a team that wins now, with high priced free agents instead of drafting and developing talent...any good team has to be built on the OL and DL...they need to play together for a while to gel.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by charlielyons

One reason the skins are NOT an elite team is the FO offseason approach for the last 10 years. they have tried to develop a team that wins now, with high priced free agents instead of drafting and developing talent...any good team has to be built on the OL and DL...they need to play together for a while to gel.

We definitely need to make more improvements on the interior of the lines particularly, in my opinion. But the biggest issue isn't so much having the young talent on our roster, it's actually playing them consistently.

[charlielyons]

the defense would be top notch if we could get a powerhouse DT..that would make the pocket collapse so the QB could not step up, which in turn would allow our ends to get more sacks.....the secondary is very good in my opinion, with little pressure as we get on the QB i think they do a great job in coverage for the most part

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by GMScud

I don't think we really have a choice at this point. I think we have to draft HEAVY in the trenches, particularly on offense.

agreed

we have a great secondary which helps makeup for some of the inadequacies on the line.. we're consistently a top 10, and many times right around the 5 mark defense.. imagine what we'd be with a line that closed and collapsed pockets!

but at the same time, we can kinda ride out the secondary and get some great OL help.. our LB crew is getting older, but hopefully our young guys can step up in that role and we can maybe bring in another guy to groom to be the leader, if rocky doesn't become that guy