On Blache

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

Way to omit Leftwich, Fitzpatrick, Orlovsky, and Bulger because they don't support your argument. Better yet, thanks for checking to see that your argument is bunk, and then trying to throw out selective stats anyway, and hoping I wouldn't notice.

I thought we defended Warner and Brees pretty darn well three months ago. Our offense also averaged 26.5 points between those games, and at the time, was clearly helping to contribute to our team success.

Thanks though, I needed a good chuckle. Carry on.

Talk abut a laugher... wow.... you ARE the best analyist on this site...

1st) Bulger IS listed... 136 passing yards vs Skins... over 40 on the last heave... spectacular.. it's called READING... left to right, top to bottom...

2nd) Leftwich did well, but has not played any other significant time at ALL this season to compare...

3rd) Orlovsky' numbers were break even...60% comp/88 QBR - 58.4% comp/80.3 overall .. definitely NOT much worse against others like YOUR ignorant statement was...

YOU failed to mention Romo, who we played just FOUR games ago who had a 72.4 QBR and 2 Ints in the game. Matter of fact... he had his 2nd & 4th worst QBRs against us (out of 11 games)...

I can keep going...

How about McNabb? 196 yds, 58.6% comp, 0 TDs, 79.1 QBR vs Skins - 60.9% comp,86.7 QBR overall...

or Eli Manning?? 54.3% & 61.8% comp, 61.1 & 88.5 QBRs vs Skins - 60.3% comp, 86.4 overall...

So that leaves ONE QB this ENTIRE 14 GAME SEASON who had a remotely BETTER day than usual.. Ryan Fitzpatrick with an amazing 55% comp and one London Fletcher or Mike Green CATCH away from a QBR in the 60's...

I mean... obviously you WANTED me to call you out on being TOTALLY incorrect by carrying this on... right?

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Talk abut a laugher... wow.... you ARE the best analyist on this site...

1st) Bulger IS listed... 136 passing yards vs Skins... over 40 on the last heave... spectacular.. it's called READING... left to right, top to bottom...

2nd) Leftwich did well, but has not played any other significant time at ALL this season to compare...

3rd) Orlovsky' numbers were break even...60% comp/88 QBR - 58.4% comp/80.3 overall .. definitely NOT much worse against others like YOUR ignorant statement was...

YOU failed to mention Romo, who we played just FOUR games ago who had a 72.4 QBR and 2 Ints in the game. Matter of fact... he had his 2nd & 4th worst QBRs against us (out of 11 games)...

I can keep going...

How about McNabb? 196 yds, 58.6% comp, 0 TDs, 79.1 QBR vs Skins - 60.9% comp,86.7 QBR overall...

or Eli Manning?? 54.3% & 61.8% comp, 61.1 & 88.5 QBRs vs Skins - 60.3% comp, 86.4 overall...

So that leaves ONE QB this ENTIRE 14 GAME SEASON who had a remotely BETTER day than usual.. Ryan Fitzpatrick with an amazing 55% comp and one London Fletcher or Mike Green CATCH away from a QBR in the 60's...

I mean... obviously you WANTED me to call you out on being TOTALLY incorrect by carrying this on... right?

What impresses me most about our defense is we have no pass rush to speak of. Plus how many INT's have we dropped?? If these guys could just catch the ball!!! Also Cinn had most of their yardage on the first few drives. After that Blache adjusted and shut them down. That's what I really like about him and that's a sign of good coaching. He makes adjustments and he's been doing it all year long.

As long as guys are in position to make plays then I can't blame Blache. Rarely have I seen guys out of position this year. When we get beat it's cause the other guy was better. I can accept that. I remember in 06 guys were all over the place, out of position and what not. It seemed Williams was trying to be too cute. Blache seems to keep it more simple.

[Joe Kidd]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

Also Cinn had most of their yardage on the first few drives. After that Blache adjusted and shut them down. That's what I really like about him and that's a sign of good coaching. He makes adjustments and he's been doing it all year long.

What happened on that last drive when the Bengals held the ball for something like 8-9 minutes? The Skins have been burned in the 4th quarter a bunch this year, for whatever reason in crunch time they falter. I'm not saying it's all on Blache, but there's just something there that makes you wonder why they can't close teams out in the 4th.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Joe Kidd

What happened on that last drive when the Bengals held the ball for something like 8-9 minutes? The Skins have been burned in the 4th quarter a bunch this year, for whatever reason in crunch time they falter. I'm not saying it's all on Blache, but there's just something there that makes you wonder why they can't close teams out in the 4th.

From what I've seen our guys are just getting ran over in those situations. The coaches can't go out there and tackle can they? They can't make guys get off blocks can they? Who on our front line is good enough to make a stop or a sack when we have to have it? No one.

[Joe Kidd]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

From what I've seen our guys are just getting ran over in those situations. The coaches can't go out there and tackle can they? They can't make guys get off blocks can they? Who on our front line is good enough to make a stop or a sack when we have to have it? No one.

No but he can make adjustments as you say. I'm just not convinced the players are entirely to blame.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Joe Kidd

What happened on that last drive when the Bengals held the ball for something like 8-9 minutes? The Skins have been burned in the 4th quarter a bunch this year, for whatever reason in crunch time they falter. I'm not saying it's all on Blache, but there's just something there that makes you wonder why they can't close teams out in the 4th.

I'd say that our D faltered in the first 1/4 thes week and not in the fourth.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I'd say that our D faltered in the first 1/4 thes week and not in the fourth.

I have posted this many a times, but for as good as our D is, they have been horrible every 1st quarter. They usually picked up as the game went along, but as our offensive struggles have risen, they have, of late, faltered in the 4th quarter too. 2nd and 3rd quarters, the D has been stellar.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by firstdown

I'd say that our D faltered in the first 1/4 thes week and not in the fourth.

He's got a good point, they controlled the clock for over 7 minutes in the 4th quarter on one drive.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

Talk abut a laugher... wow.... you ARE the best analyist on this site...

1st) Bulger IS listed... 136 passing yards vs Skins... over 40 on the last heave... spectacular.. it's called READING... left to right, top to bottom...

2nd) Leftwich did well, but has not played any other significant time at ALL this season to compare...

3rd) Orlovsky' numbers were break even...60% comp/88 QBR - 58.4% comp/80.3 overall .. definitely NOT much worse against others like YOUR ignorant statement was...

YOU failed to mention Romo, who we played just FOUR games ago who had a 72.4 QBR and 2 Ints in the game. Matter of fact... he had his 2nd & 4th worst QBRs against us (out of 11 games)...

I can keep going...

How about McNabb? 196 yds, 58.6% comp, 0 TDs, 79.1 QBR vs Skins - 60.9% comp,86.7 QBR overall...

or Eli Manning?? 54.3% & 61.8% comp, 61.1 & 88.5 QBRs vs Skins - 60.3% comp, 86.4 overall...

So that leaves ONE QB this ENTIRE 14 GAME SEASON who had a remotely BETTER day than usual.. Ryan Fitzpatrick with an amazing 55% comp and one London Fletcher or Mike Green CATCH away from a QBR in the 60's...

I mean... obviously you WANTED me to call you out on being TOTALLY incorrect by carrying this on... right?

You use '...' so much that I can't really get the flow of what your point is. I see a lot of potentially useful statistics, but they're just thrown at me in a way that I can't hope to understand what your point is.

Basically, your argument lacks logical flow. It's coming off somewhat like:

"A bunch of horrible passers look especially horrible when playing the Redskins. Doesn't this prove that we're great!?!?! Also, points!"

Well, no, but perhaps you are trying to prove something more concrete. I can't tell.

You're also using assumed change in QB Rating to make a point that QB Rating is poorly designed to prove. But I see what you are saying with the completion %....sort of.

My point: we're a below average pass defense --and I could throw a books-worth of stats at you to prove this-- and I don't feel like we should be based on the individual talent we have in the secondary AND on the pass rush

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

You use '...' so much that I can't really get the flow of what your point is. I see a lot of potentially useful statistics, but they're just thrown at me in a way that I can't hope to understand what your point is.

Basically, your argument lacks logical flow. It's coming off somewhat like: A bunch of horrible passers look especially horrible when playing the Redskins. Doesn't this prove that we're great!?!?! Also, points! Well, no, but perhaps you are trying to prove something more concrete. I can't tell.

You're also using assumed change in QB Rating to make a point that QB Rating is poorly designed to prove. But I see what you are saying with the completion %....sort of.

My point: we're a below average pass defense --and I could throw a books-worth of stats at you to prove this-- and I don't feel like we should be based on the individual talent we have in the secondary AND on the pass rush

OK this is the last comment I'll make on this subject.

You originally called ME out on not understanding statistics. Then you said that QBs we face have worse days against everyone else in the league.

I then pointed out that we are ranked in the top 10 in pretty much every pass defense category and that you were wrong. I showed, with CLEAR statistics that only one QB in 14 games has a romotely better day that usual. You read, and obviously understand what I was pointing out because of the next ludicrous statement you make in response, then act like YOU can't understand the logic of statement made because you can't make a truly valid argument to facts & numbers I present.

You actually make a mocking statement saying we have faced "A bunch of horrible passers"??

Romo? McNabb? Manning? Roethlisberger? Hasselbeck? Brees? Warner? These are horrible passers?

Whatever. I can't argue with this kind of talk anymore.

Look, I'm not trying to bash you here, but I will defend myself when someone attacks my intelligence.

I can't really make myself much more clear. Anyone who thinks we have a "below average pass defense" should NOT be trying to belittle or trash ANYONE else's statements.

If you are this site's premeir football analyst and feel like you have to belittle facts someone else points out, because you feel threatened (I guess), don't worry, most people don't have the time to put in the hours you do... including me. (Oh, sorry for the ... now you may not be able to understand my whole post)

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

OK this is the last comment I'll make on this subject.

You originally called ME out on not understanding statistics. Then you said that QBs we face have worse days against everyone else in the league.

I then pointed out that we are ranked in the top 10 in pretty much every pass defense category and that you were wrong. I showed, with CLEAR statistics that only one QB in 14 games has a romotely better day that usual. You read, and obviously understand what I was pointing out because of the next ludicrous statement you make in response, then act like YOU can't understand the logic of statement made because you can't make a truly valid argument to facts & numbers I present.

You actually make a mocking statement saying we have faced "A bunch of horrible passers"??

Romo? McNabb? Manning? Roethlisberger? Hasselbeck? Brees? Warner? These are horrible passers?

Whatever. I can't argue with this kind of talk anymore.

Look, I'm not trying to bash you here, but I will defend myself when someone attacks my intelligence.

I can't really make myself much more clear. Anyone who thinks we have a "below average pass defense" should NOT be trying to belittle or trash ANYONE else's statements.

If you are this site's premeir football analyst and feel like you have to belittle facts someone else points out, because you feel threatened (I guess), don't worry, most people don't have the time to put in the hours you do... including me. (Oh, sorry for the ... now you may not be able to understand my whole post)

I don't think this should be about you vs. me: who knows more? Why would I stoop down to that level? It's not an argument that anyone on this board, besides you, should or would give a crap about.

I never once accused you of not knowing what you are talking about. I thought your argument was built the wrong way (kinda like the Redskins). You decided, presumably based on the games you've seen, that the Redskins defense is great, offense is terrible, and that you might be able to prove this statistically. Statistics were never designed to be used like that. The context-neutral statistics I cite in ALL of my game reviews suggest that the defense and offense are close to equally responsible for the downfall of the team. Not coincidentally, this is also what I see on film. Imagine that.

What you did bring to light is that, the Redskins have faced a bunch of passers that are having awful years. When you cite Roethlisberger and Hasselbeck, you're only helping to defend my point. When you cite Brees, and Warner, you're actually bringing solid evidence to the contrary. Which makes this a good discussion. Those guys are MVP candidates. We shut them down. Why haven't we done that all season long?! Why did Ryan Fitzpatrick and Mark Bulger succeed where Brees and Warner failed? Why are we totally helpless against Eli Manning and Tony Romo (and possibly McNabb, depending on the outcome of Sunday's game). Should we be?

But the problem here is that you are lumping the good passers with the bad passers with the disappointingly bad, with the surprisingly bad, and then you use a series of double standards. ("Don't you think Roethlisberger is great?! What about Hasselbeck?")

I enjoyed your game by game breakdown of how passers did against us. You also changed the metric you were using to suit your argument, because the primary metrics you used, completion percentage and QB Rating, did not fit your argument in all the cases. Which means, that by definition, your argument was weak. I didn't have to respond, because you already knew from the research that you weren't as right as you thought you were. That was MY point.

The main thing, is I can't respond to your point, until you make a point. I think you are trying to say that we have an above average pass defense. But your defense for it is weak. Since you can't come to terms with me on proper opponent adjustments for the Leftwich half, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Hasselbeck, Dan Orlovsky, Mark Bulger, or against one of the other passers we should have shut down, but didn't, I suggest we shrink the sample and talk about a case by case study.

Brees and Warner struggled against this pass defense, like you said. Romo and Manning, in those must win games, have had no trouble whatsoever, broken pinky, wet ball, whatever the conditions. Why exactly, are you contesting, that the performance of two home games in September should outweigh two more important home games in November in your argument? Why are you giving the defense a pass in those games?

Very simple. The two best performances vs. our two worst. All else equal, why should September games be weighed more heavily in your mind than November games within the division. Are injuries a factor in your mind? Or are you simply refusing to admit the defense f'ed up at any point this season.

---------------------------------

PS -- If you bother to respond to this, you first must consider the fact that you might be wrong, and I might be right here. If you can't do that, don't bother responding to this. You will be wasting your time.

You aren't necessarily wrong, that's not what I'm trying to say. But if your whole purpose of reading this is to try to prove, against strong evidence to the contrary, that you are right, it's just not worth what you are going to put into it. I mean, you obviously haven't put as much thought into it as I have.

And don't bother with any personal attacks either. You haven't been around here long enough to offend me.

[Hail to the Redskins]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

I don't think this should be about you vs. me: who knows more? Why would I stoop down to that level? It's not an argument that anyone on this board, besides you, should or would give a crap about.

I never once accused you of not knowing what you are talking about. I thought your argument was built the wrong way (kinda like the Redskins). You decided, presumably based on the games you've seen, that the Redskins defense is great, offense is terrible, and that you might be able to prove this statistically. Statistics were never designed to be used like that. The context-neutral statistics I cite in ALL of my game reviews suggest that the defense and offense are close to equally responsible for the downfall of the team. Not coincidentally, this is also what I see on film. Imagine that.

What you did bring to light is that, the Redskins have faced a bunch of passers that are having awful years. When you cite Roethlisberger and Hasselbeck, you're only helping to defend my point. When you cite Brees, and Warner, you're actually bringing solid evidence to the contrary. Which makes this a good discussion. Those guys are MVP candidates. We shut them down. Why haven't we done that all season long?! Why did Ryan Fitzpatrick and Mark Bulger succeed where Brees and Warner failed? Why are we totally helpless against Eli Manning and Tony Romo (and possibly McNabb, depending on the outcome of Sunday's game). Should we be?

But the problem here is that you are lumping the good passers with the bad passers with the disappointingly bad, with the surprisingly bad, and then you use a series of double standards. ("Don't you think Roethlisberger is great?! What about Hasselbeck?")

I enjoyed your game by game breakdown of how passers did against us. You also changed the metric you were using to suit your argument, because the primary metrics you used, completion percentage and QB Rating, did not fit your argument in all the cases. Which means, that by definition, your argument was weak. I didn't have to respond, because you already knew from the research that you weren't as right as you thought you were. That was MY point.

The main thing, is I can't respond to your point, until you make a point. I think you are trying to say that we have an above average pass defense. But your defense for it is weak. Since you can't come to terms with me on proper opponent adjustments for the Leftwich half, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Matt Hasselbeck, Dan Orlovsky, Mark Bulger, or against one of the other passers we should have shut down, but didn't, I suggest we shrink the sample and talk about a case by case study.

Brees and Warner struggled against this pass defense, like you said. Romo and Manning, in those must win games, have had no trouble whatsoever, broken pinky, wet ball, whatever the conditions. Why exactly, are you contesting, that the performance of two home games in September should outweigh two more important home games in November in your argument? Why are you giving the defense a pass in those games?

Very simple. The two best performances vs. our two worst. All else equal, why should September games be weighed more heavily in your mind than November games within the division. Are injuries a factor in your mind? Or are you simply refusing to admit the defense f'ed up at any point this season.

---------------------------------

PS -- If you bother to respond to this, you first must consider the fact that you might be wrong, and I might be right here. If you can't do that, don't bother responding to this. You will be wasting your time.

You aren't necessarily wrong, that's not what I'm trying to say. But if your whole purpose of reading this is to try to prove, against strong evidence to the contrary, that you are right, it's just not worth what you are going to put into it. I mean, you obviously haven't put as much thought into it as I have.

And don't bother with any personal attacks either. You haven't been around here long enough to offend me.

OK, first of all, I have been on this website since February 2004. Again, I am REALLY having issue here with your READING ABILITY. (It IS right under my name) In case you are not sure how to interpret THIS stat, I have been here 2 years longer than you. I am here all the time reading, but I don't always post due to ignorance and attacks most people feel like they have to respond with, rather than just talk about the Skins (you started this back and forth when you said that I was "100% wrong" and smugly pronounced that I "don't know how to use statistics")

Again and again you TOTALLY disregard things I say to try and twist things to support your argument and can't FATHOM that YOU ARE WRONG.

And Matty, I am suprised by your two cents. I have been here for 4 years and pretty much respected what you contribute. But, if you have read this whole back and forth discussion and you think that I have been "proven" wrong somewhow, well...

1) Our offense - 16.5 points per game - 29th in the NFL
2) Our defense - 19.0 points per game - 7th in the NFL

OK, first things first. If talk about making a clear enough point for YOU to understand... the ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS IS POINTS. If you don't agree with this, you are clueless.

How anyone can say that our defense is EQUALLY responsible for our record is just trying to in some way prove how insightful they are by using some complex game film, existential blathering argument. I mean, you have used no argument other than your words and your "I have watched the game film" argument over and over while spewing wrong fact after wrong fact with no stats to back it up (see Bulger & Romo below). What "Overwhelming evidence"?? What your incredible game film analysis?? I am soooo lost as to why exactly I am wrong here.

I mean, 24 of the 32 teams in the NFL AVERAGE MORE THAN 19.0 points per game. (I'm sure ALL of those teams would be happy with our D)

Regardless, if you ask a person who actually gets PAID to "break down film," (meaning they DO know what they are talking about & have a job in the NFL) if 16.5 points per game is something they wish for their offense, I HOPE you can grasp what their answer would be.

If you ask the same person if they would take a defense which allows on 19.0 points per game, THEY WOULDN'T COMPLAIN.

Now about the COMPLETE OMISSIONS and overlooks of clear points I debunk of yours...

You keep bringing up Bulger's game against the Redskins for some reason like he tortched us. I literally am laughing about it right now. The guy had a whopping 93 YARDS PASSING with 1:06 seconds left in the game (!) when LEIGH TORRANCE misplayed his coverage and gave up the 43 yard hail mary heave. For the game, he had a 57% completion and 72 QB Rating. Come on man, really, this is rediculous.

Also, why are we helpless against Manning & Romo?? I JUST posted this but let me try one more time.

Manning's combined stats vs Skins this year was 57.9% comp (his overall for the year is 60.3%) and his QB Rating was 74.8 (86.4 overall). Those ARE worse right??

Romo's stats vs Skins - 63.5% completion (63.1% overall) and his QB Rating was 81.7 (his overall rating is 98.3). Here again you provide more stupidity wth your words. In that week 11 game (you know, the "September game" 8 weeks after the Arizona game), Romo was 19-for-27 for a whopping 198 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, and a robust QBR of 72.8. This is a perfect example of the ignorance that is getting absurd. You call me out for discrediting this performance when it clearly only SUPPORTS my statements.

Also, you are saying that Roethlisberger and Hasselbeck are terrible QBs? or are you trying to use the "bad year" excuse like playing either is easy pickings for a defense? Again, ask a REAL, paid film watcher and ask them if these two guys are bums and that their defense SHOULD shut them down.

Regardless, Roethlisberger completed 29% of his passes and had a 15.1 QB Rating. You are saying these are his average output numbers??

Also, and finally, I point out that only 1 QB in 14 has had a BETTER DAY THAN HIS averages ALL SEASON LONG. That is a clear statement/argument for our pass defense CLEARLY not being below average. And by the way, way to COMPLETELY ignore my stats on our pass defense being in the top 10 in every major category.

Anyway, I wouldn't have responded, because I was to the point where I was realizing you just REFUSE to admit you MIGHT be wrong, just once, with you being the "expert and all". But to see other people buy it, Matty, I had to make sure I cleared the air.

Oh, and let me point out as a final word; The Detroit Lions average more points per game than the Washington Redskins. (17.1 to 16.5)

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

OK, first of all, I have been on this website since February 2004. Again, I am REALLY having issue here with your READING ABILITY. (It IS right under my name) In case you are not sure how to interpret THIS stat, I have been here 2 years longer than you. I am here all the time reading, but I don't always post due to ignorance and attacks most people feel like they have to respond with, rather than just talk about the Skins (you started this back and forth when you said that I was "100% wrong" and smugly pronounced that I "don't know how to use statistics")

Again and again you TOTALLY disregard things I say to try and twist things to support your argument and can't FATHOM that YOU ARE WRONG.

And Matty, I am suprised by your two cents. I have been here for 4 years and pretty much respected what you contribute. But, if you have read this whole back and forth discussion and you think that I have been "proven" wrong somewhow, well...

1) Our offense - 16.5 points per game - 29th in the NFL
2) Our defense - 19.0 points per game - 7th in the NFL

OK, first things first. If talk about making a clear enough point for YOU to understand... the ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS IS POINTS. If you don't agree with this, you are clueless.

How anyone can say that our defense is EQUALLY responsible for our record is just trying to in some way prove how insightful they are by using some complex game film, existential blathering argument. I mean, you have used no argument other than your words and your "I have watched the game film" argument over and over while spewing wrong fact after wrong fact with no stats to back it up (see Bulger & Romo below). What "Overwhelming evidence"?? What your incredible game film analysis?? I am soooo lost as to why exactly I am wrong here.

I mean, 24 of the 32 teams in the NFL AVERAGE MORE THAN 19.0 points per game. (I'm sure ALL of those teams would be happy with our D)

Regardless, if you ask a person who actually gets PAID to "break down film," (meaning they DO know what they are talking about & have a job in the NFL) if 16.5 points per game is something they wish for their offense, I HOPE you can grasp what their answer would be.

If you ask the same person if they would take a defense which allows on 19.0 points per game, THEY WOULDN'T COMPLAIN.

Now about the COMPLETE OMISSIONS and overlooks of clear points I debunk of yours...

You keep bringing up Bulger's game against the Redskins for some reason like he tortched us. I literally am laughing about it right now. The guy had a whopping 93 YARDS PASSING with 1:06 seconds left in the game (!) when LEIGH TORRANCE misplayed his coverage and gave up the 43 yard hail mary heave. For the game, he had a 57% completion and 72 QB Rating. Come on man, really, this is rediculous.

Also, why are we helpless against Manning & Romo?? I JUST posted this but let me try one more time.

Manning's combined stats vs Skins this year was 57.9% comp (his overall for the year is 60.3%) and his QB Rating was 74.8 (86.4 overall). Those ARE worse right??

Romo's stats vs Skins - 63.5% completion (63.1% overall) and his QB Rating was 81.7 (his overall rating is 98.3). Here again you provide more stupidity wth your words. In that week 11 game (you know, the "September game" 8 weeks after the Arizona game), Romo was 19-for-27 for a whopping 198 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, and a robust QBR of 72.8. This is a perfect example of the ignorance that is getting absurd. You call me out for discrediting this performance when it clearly only SUPPORTS my statements.

Also, you are saying that Roethlisberger and Hasselbeck are terrible QBs? or are you trying to use the "bad year" excuse like playing either is easy pickings for a defense? Again, ask a REAL, paid film watcher and ask them if these two guys are bums and that their defense SHOULD shut them down.

Regardless, Roethlisberger completed 29% of his passes and had a 15.1 QB Rating. You are saying these are his average output numbers??

Also, and finally, I point out that only 1 QB in 14 has had a BETTER DAY THAN HIS averages ALL SEASON LONG. That is a clear statement/argument for our pass defense CLEARLY not being below average. And by the way, way to COMPLETELY ignore my stats on our pass defense being in the top 10 in every major category.

Anyway, I wouldn't have responded, because I was to the point where I was realizing you just REFUSE to admit you MIGHT be wrong, just once, with you being the "expert and all". But to see other people buy it, Matty, I had to make sure I cleared the air.

Oh, and let me point out as a final word; The Detroit Lions average more points per game than the Washington Redskins. (17.1 to 16.5)

That's all that needs to be said. We don't do the exotic things that Pittsburgh or Balt does but the bottom line is if we scored more points we'd be going to the playoffs. I'd even point out that the 19 points should be lower cause of some of the bad situations the offense has put the defense in. If the defense didn't keep us in games we'd be STL. Cinn or Det. bad.

[MrJL]

Originally Posted by skinsfan69

That's all that needs to be said. We don't do the exotic things that Pittsburgh or Balt does but the bottom line is if we scored more points we'd be going to the playoffs. I'd even point out that the 19 points should be lower cause of some of the bad situations the offense has put the defense in. If the defense didn't keep us in games we'd be STL. Cinn or Det. bad.

The Offense has rarely put the Defense in bad positions. They don't turn over the ball much. Maybe the special teams has.

But maybe if the did some of the exotic things Pitt or Baltimore did teams would score less than nineteen. Or the offense would get the ball in better field position.

[maroonandblack30]

Originally Posted by Hail to the Redskins

OK, first of all, I have been on this website since February 2004. Again, I am REALLY having issue here with your READING ABILITY. (It IS right under my name) In case you are not sure how to interpret THIS stat, I have been here 2 years longer than you. I am here all the time reading, but I don't always post due to ignorance and attacks most people feel like they have to respond with, rather than just talk about the Skins (you started this back and forth when you said that I was "100% wrong" and smugly pronounced that I "don't know how to use statistics")

Again and again you TOTALLY disregard things I say to try and twist things to support your argument and can't FATHOM that YOU ARE WRONG.

And Matty, I am suprised by your two cents. I have been here for 4 years and pretty much respected what you contribute. But, if you have read this whole back and forth discussion and you think that I have been "proven" wrong somewhow, well...

1) Our offense - 16.5 points per game - 29th in the NFL
2) Our defense - 19.0 points per game - 7th in the NFL

OK, first things first. If talk about making a clear enough point for YOU to understand... the ONLY STAT THAT MATTERS IS POINTS. If you don't agree with this, you are clueless.

How anyone can say that our defense is EQUALLY responsible for our record is just trying to in some way prove how insightful they are by using some complex game film, existential blathering argument. I mean, you have used no argument other than your words and your "I have watched the game film" argument over and over while spewing wrong fact after wrong fact with no stats to back it up (see Bulger & Romo below). What "Overwhelming evidence"?? What your incredible game film analysis?? I am soooo lost as to why exactly I am wrong here.

I mean, 24 of the 32 teams in the NFL AVERAGE MORE THAN 19.0 points per game. (I'm sure ALL of those teams would be happy with our D)

Regardless, if you ask a person who actually gets PAID to "break down film," (meaning they DO know what they are talking about & have a job in the NFL) if 16.5 points per game is something they wish for their offense, I HOPE you can grasp what their answer would be.

If you ask the same person if they would take a defense which allows on 19.0 points per game, THEY WOULDN'T COMPLAIN.

Now about the COMPLETE OMISSIONS and overlooks of clear points I debunk of yours...

You keep bringing up Bulger's game against the Redskins for some reason like he tortched us. I literally am laughing about it right now. The guy had a whopping 93 YARDS PASSING with 1:06 seconds left in the game (!) when LEIGH TORRANCE misplayed his coverage and gave up the 43 yard hail mary heave. For the game, he had a 57% completion and 72 QB Rating. Come on man, really, this is rediculous.

Also, why are we helpless against Manning & Romo?? I JUST posted this but let me try one more time.

Manning's combined stats vs Skins this year was 57.9% comp (his overall for the year is 60.3%) and his QB Rating was 74.8 (86.4 overall). Those ARE worse right??

Romo's stats vs Skins - 63.5% completion (63.1% overall) and his QB Rating was 81.7 (his overall rating is 98.3). Here again you provide more stupidity wth your words. In that week 11 game (you know, the "September game" 8 weeks after the Arizona game), Romo was 19-for-27 for a whopping 198 yards, 1 TD, 2 INTs, and a robust QBR of 72.8. This is a perfect example of the ignorance that is getting absurd. You call me out for discrediting this performance when it clearly only SUPPORTS my statements.

Also, you are saying that Roethlisberger and Hasselbeck are terrible QBs? or are you trying to use the "bad year" excuse like playing either is easy pickings for a defense? Again, ask a REAL, paid film watcher and ask them if these two guys are bums and that their defense SHOULD shut them down.

Regardless, Roethlisberger completed 29% of his passes and had a 15.1 QB Rating. You are saying these are his average output numbers??

Also, and finally, I point out that only 1 QB in 14 has had a BETTER DAY THAN HIS averages ALL SEASON LONG. That is a clear statement/argument for our pass defense CLEARLY not being below average. And by the way, way to COMPLETELY ignore my stats on our pass defense being in the top 10 in every major category.

Anyway, I wouldn't have responded, because I was to the point where I was realizing you just REFUSE to admit you MIGHT be wrong, just once, with you being the "expert and all". But to see other people buy it, Matty, I had to make sure I cleared the air.

Oh, and let me point out as a final word; The Detroit Lions average more points per game than the Washington Redskins. (17.1 to 16.5)

I agree here.... I think Gtripp is OVER analysing things a tad.

Any one who watches the games knows the Skins have a good pass defense, you can twist stats to mean anything you want.