Stan Hixon

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by 53Fan

Nolan Cromwell. He is currently the OC at Texas A&M.

Ahh. Thank you!

[cpayne5]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Well, our WRs are NEVER open downfield, and Malcolm Kelly and Devin Thomas struggled big time with the learning curve from college to pros. I know that's not all Hixon's fault, but he has to shoulder some of that blame. I'd say that's a bit more than shallow and baseless.

Sorry, but I haven't seen Hixon run those routes or call those plays. Like I said, we don't know what his job responsibilities are. There are three people in the equation here, 1) the WRs, 2) Zorn and 3) Hixon. We know the responsibilities of two of the 3. The WRs are supposed to get open, and learn the offense. That's part of being a professional, rookie or not. Zorn's responsibilities involve calling plays that will utilize the strengths of the WRs to put them into position to succeed. We don't know what Hixon's responsibilities are. So yes, the conclusions being drawn do seem awfully shallow and baseless considering what we know (which is next to nothing).

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Sorry, but I haven't seen Hixon run those routes or call those plays. Like I said, we don't know what his job responsibilities are. There are three people in the equation here, 1) the WRs, 2) Zorn and 3) Hixon. We know the responsibilities of two of the 3. The WRs are supposed to get open, and learn the offense. That's part of being a professional, rookie or not. Zorn's responsibilities involve calling plays that will utilize the strengths of the WRs to put them into position to succeed. We don't know what Hixon's responsibilities are. So yes, the conclusions being drawn do seem awfully shallow and baseless considering what we know (which is next to nothing).

We know he's the WRs coach. We know production from our WRs has been severely lacking since he's been here. Sure, none of us sit in on coaching meetings or attend practices, but I would think as a WRs coach his job is to, well, coach the WRs and make them better at their responsibilities.

If a team as a whole plays poorly year after year, the head coach usually gets fired. Why should it be any different if a certain position performs poorly year after year?

[53Fan]

If Buges can be questioned over the O-Line play, Hixon can damn sure be questioned on the receiver play.

[SBXVII]

Cpayne5, I agree in part. The O-line did not give JC enough time to read his routes much less throw the ball. So in essence I agree Hixon is not totally the problem which is why I would like for us to either retire Bugel or let him go and find someone who is more current with the new blocking schemes/ maybe zone blocking if that is what Zorn was asking for. Buges is only good for technique these days.

I'm not sure if Christensen is a WCO type of coach but he definitly could help with developing down the field passes withZorn. Christensen would also be great at teaching the WR's to get open. We picked up argueably the two best WR's in last yrs draft. They have talent or they would not have been listed to go in the first rounds in some of the draft boards. Amazingly they fell to us in the second round. They just need to be coached properly. Also if some of you are right and they are busts then don't you think one of the best in the league would be able to identify that and possibly bring in better talent at WR? and you guys are right he may not want to come but it doesn't hurt to explore this avenue and offer a ton of money to pull him away from the Colts. It might even be a good stepping stone for him in the future in terms of becoming a HC either here (which I doubt would happen unless Zorn get fired) or elsewhere.

[MTK]

This sounds like people looking for a scapegoat to me.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by cpayne5

Sorry, but I haven't seen Hixon run those routes or call those plays. Like I said, we don't know what his job responsibilities are. There are three people in the equation here, 1) the WRs, 2) Zorn and 3) Hixon. We know the responsibilities of two of the 3. The WRs are supposed to get open, and learn the offense. That's part of being a professional, rookie or not. Zorn's responsibilities involve calling plays that will utilize the strengths of the WRs to put them into position to succeed. We don't know what Hixon's responsibilities are. So yes, the conclusions being drawn do seem awfully shallow and baseless considering what we know (which is next to nothing).

Lets take a look at your scenario. ...If we agree that we have not had WR production in 5 yrs or more then lets look at what has remained the same through all those yrs. Its not Zorn, he's new this year. So now your looking at either WR's or WR Coach. I could agree we need better talent. The only player I would keep from yrs past is Moss and he even is slipping with all his injuries. but you can't say it's all the WR when we bring in what many teams had as top 1st round talent in Kelly and Thomas and they can't produce. So the constant has been Hixon. Through Gibbs whole tenure. Two OC's during Gibbs term could not get production and now Zorn. I can't blame Zorn for that. I can blame Zorn for developing piss pour plays and not adjusting during game or season which I would hope Christensen would be able to teach since he already once was an OC.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This sounds like people looking for a scapegoat to me.

Well, I don't think poor WR play falls solely on Hixon. You have to consider OL play, rookies, etc. However if one of our positions stinks consistently, shouldn't the coach of that position at least deserve to be under some scrutiny? Seems pretty logical to me.

[theJBexperience]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Well, Hasselbeck has made 3 or 4 pro-bowls and won an NFC Championship with those less-than-big-name WRs. Darrell Jackson had some nice years there, and Bobby Ingram caught like 95 balls in 2007.

You can't count 2008 because Hasselbeck and most of the WRs were shredded by injuries, but every other year they have had a very good passing offense with, as you say, middle of the road guys.

For the record, their WR coach is right now is Keith Gibertson . He was new to their staff this year. I don't know who it was in previous years when Zorn was there. In light of that fact, I would say no to bringing in Gilbertson.

If anyone can find out who their WRs coach was when Zorn was there, I'd love to know. I poked around for a while but couldn't find him.

Ah. I thought it was the same guy all those years and having "middle of the road" talent finally caught up to him when Hasslebeck went down. The SEA WR coach from that era may be woth a look because those WRs haven't really produced outside of their days at SEA. I don't know if it's because of his coaching or because Masslebeck is such a great QB. It's similar to the Pats situation til they brought in Welker and Moss. Their average WRs' good numbers were a by product of a great QB.

[BrunellMVP?]

are all the rookie WRs healthy?

why isn't Kelly active? i know we wanted to win the last game, but i'd like to see what they can do...

I haven't given up hope that this class can turn it around...AND we really need chad to step up next year

[SBXVII]

I'll also add that we have had a couple of WR's that have were supposed to be washed up or primidana's who have gone on to other teams and produced....ie; Patten having gone to the Saints and Lloyd having gone to the Bears. Lloyd had this year...26 rec. for 364 yrds and 2 td's that more then he had with us. Not great production but production none the less. Same with Patten. Oh, and look at Coles. He produced some good numbers with the Jets comes to us does not too shabby then Gibbs trades him back to the Jets for Moss and Coles is their leading WR becoming a scoring machine.

I would think it would be the coach's responsibility to teach route running especially to new WR's just out of college trying to learn the NFL speed.

I'm not saying it's totally Hixons fault that our team sucked mid way through the season. What I'm saying is I have not seen production from a unit in 5 yrs. It remained constant and has not grown. Yes we have short WR for those yrs so you develope plays around that. Curls, Slants besides screan plays every other play. Come backs would have worked also. Our come backs were 2 yrds when we needed 5. Obviously a WR/HC issue.

Let me ask you ...if a RB is not running the right routes all year and they get rid of him and bring in a new RB and he is not running right routes who's fault is it? Who gets let go then? I guess it should be HC, QB or OC right. Wait I forgot management....Cerratto.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

I'll also add that we have had a couple of WR's that have were supposed to be washed up or primidana's who have gone on to other teams and produced....ie; Patten having gone to the Saints and Lloyd having gone to the Bears. Lloyd had this year...26 rec. for 364 yrds and 2 td's that more then he had with us. Not great production but production none the less. Same with Patten. Oh, and look at Coles. He produced some good numbers with the Jets comes to us does not too shabby then Gibbs trades him back to the Jets for Moss and Coles is their leading WR becoming a scoring machine.

I would think it would be the coach's responsibility to teach route running especially to new WR's just out of college trying to learn the NFL speed.

I'm not saying it's totally Hixons fault that our team sucked mid way through the season. What I'm saying is I have not seen production from a unit in 5 yrs. It remained constant and has not grown. Yes we have short WR for those yrs so you develope plays around that. Curls, Slants besides screan plays every other play. Come backs would have worked also. Our come backs were 2 yrds when we needed 5. Obviously a WR/HC issue.

Let me ask you ...if a RB is not running the right routes all year and they get rid of him and bring in a new RB and he is not running right routes who's fault is it? Who gets let go then? I guess it should be HC, QB or OC right. Wait I forgot management....Cerratto.

How is Coles a scoring machine exactly?

His TDs since going back to the Jets:

2008: 7
2007: 6
2006: 6
2005: 5

Sorry but that doesn't scream "scoring machine" to me.

How about his receiving yards since going back to the Jets?

2008: 850
2007: 646
2006: 1,098
2005: 845

Pretty pedestrian numbers overall to me. He's solid but let's not act like he's a gamebreaker.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Thats why I suggested OC position. He would have a lot in helping Zorn drum up plays to go a long with Zorn's wonderfull offense he provided and he would coach up the WR's. We all know if they did go out and get a OC Zorn would still be calling plays so who cares. Give him more pay, give him the WR's to coach up, and have him help Zorn with designing plays. but call him OC and it's not a lateral move. lol. right.lol.

Ahhh, missed that part. So, fire Sherman Smith? Or make one of them assistant head coach, etc?

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by tryfuhl

Ahhh, missed that part. So, fire Sherman Smith? Or make one of them assistant head coach, etc?

Not sure but changes need to be made in the coaching dept.


As for Coles being a scoring machine....I apologize for inflating his numbers. but I'll say he has done more there then he did here. Probably cause he's their #1 WR or #2 but he's done more. One would think after 2 years with us the team would figure out how to utilize ARE in a proper way instead of making him a #2 WR. If he is truely our second best talent on the team at WR we are screwed and I blame this on our WR position coach for not coaching up the two tallest WR's we have even though they are rookies. Heck we had a tall WR at the beginning of the preseason who was catching everything thrown his way and we let him go. As much production as we got out of Thrash we could have kept the other WR as a #2 untill Kelly and Thomas came along.

[tryfuhl]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

This sounds like people looking for a scapegoat to me.

You gotta blame somebody. Has it just been our receivers, play-callers, or what?

Along with whatever discussion we have about the WR coach, there's a strong argument to be made that our soon to be 2nd year pass catchers better condition well in the offseason and study their playbooks.