I guess no one likes VC.

Schneed10 · 01-01-2009, 09:41 AM

yeah but been aren't you assuming that you can fairly lay all those personnel failures at cerratos feet? I don't know how you can do that. Gibbs was in charge of personnel decisions under his title of team president. Cerratos had a role in scouting for sure, but what evidence do you have that it was cerratos and not Gibbs who chose not to address the lines? As for rinehart, why would he deserve to start over pete Kendall or randy Thomas as a rookie? Patience my son. Rinehart will have his day when Kendall is gone, whenever that may be. This is the first time anyone can definitively assign primary personnel responsibility to cerrato. If youre disappointed in player personnel, some of the blame has to lie with Gibbs and snyder, too. Its not fair to lay that on cerrato when he didnt hold decision making responsibility.

Giantone · 01-01-2009, 09:54 AM

As proven with other teams you must hold people responsable for their actions and in football the end result is win and loss's,as I said before I think Zorn will be ok what hurt the Skins was the GM's (joke)inability to supply the team with the players needed,aka....O line and D line players.

Beemnseven · 01-01-2009, 10:04 AM

Gibbs was never a personnel man, and if he had direct control and final say over draft picks, then fine, he deserves blame too. I tend to think that he deferred scouting, actual player research, and grading of prospects to other people -- Cerrato's division, for sure. It was Gibbs who ultimately looked at his team, his roster and made the final decision on the choices Cerrato presented to him.

I don't think it's a leap to say that during Gibbs' reign the second time around, that while he had complete control, it was Cerrato who held the role of player-personnel, and it was he who advised Gibbs on which players to select. Gibbs just had the yes or no angle.

In the end though, I believe the responsibility fell to Cerrato as to which groups of players Gibbs chose from.

MTK · 01-01-2009, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schneed10

yeah but been aren't you assuming that you can fairly lay all those personnel failures at cerratos feet? I don't know how you can do that. Gibbs was in charge of personnel decisions under his title of team president. Cerratos had a role in scouting for sure, but what evidence do you have that it was cerratos and not Gibbs who chose not to address the lines? As for rinehart, why would he deserve to start over pete Kendall or randy Thomas as a rookie? Patience my son. Rinehart will have his day when Kendall is gone, whenever that may be. This is the first time anyone can definitively assign primary personnel responsibility to cerrato. If youre disappointed in player personnel, some of the blame has to lie with Gibbs and snyder, too. Its not fair to lay that on cerrato when he didnt hold decision making responsibility.

At one time in the past I definitely think Snyder was pulling the strings more often than not, and under Gibbs I think Vinny again took a backseat. Starting with last year's off-season Vinny is clearly running the show now, and I think it's only fair to judge him based on that going forward. I agree one year is not a proper evaluation of a draft class. Most people know this too but are too hell bent on taking swipes at Vinny at any cost.

Hail to the Redskins · 01-01-2009, 10:29 AM

Also, you know, I liked his thoughts with all of the draft picks last year...

In my mind, it was clear that Cerrato thought that an O-Line of Samuels (Pro-Bowler), Kendall (solid vet starter), Rabach (decent), Thomas (one time Pro-Bowler), & Jansen/Heyer was good for the upcoming year and saw what we all saw last year... that our WR crew was our biggest weakness on offense on a team that went 9-7 with just one solid WR, thinking we were just a couple of pieces away from really going deep.

He selected THREE receivers because of the whole "WRs can be a bust" thing, that is true. If we take 3, one has to hit, right? He picked 2 safties with the same logic in mind, and the one picked LOWER (Horton) actually turned out better than the the other (K Moore)

The only problem is, he picked one receiver that had only ONE season as a starting WR in college, Devin Thomas, and one WR with knees worse than my grandfather... and one receiver who is a TE, which we happen to be set at. Let me say also that Fred Davis WILL be a great TE in the league. If he were on a team that needed a TE, he would have produced this year IMO.

The issues with Thomas & Kelly were obvious to the whole league. Remember, they were supposed to be drafted in the top 25 picks. BUT, Cerrato knew we needed TALL receivers for Zorn's WCO and saw two "1st round projected WRs" and jumped... and I can't blame him for it. Going into the year we had a Pro-Bowl RB & FB, a solid line, and a young developing QB, and a OC that needed "BIG" targets, so again, Cerrato's draft = not bad logic.

Also... he DID draft a lineman last year (Rinehart) for the aging GUARDS we have, because we have one Pro-Bowl T (Samuels), one T that still had some legs left (Jansen) and a backup that showed flashes as a rookie (Heyer).

BUT... imagine if Zorn wasn't bringing in the WCO... would we been more open to a DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal? (they aren't the "TALL" receivers the WCO "needs")... anyway, that's not Cerrato, the WCO dictated Thomas and Kelly.

Regardless of all of this... lol... we are still SUPER SCREWED at WR right now, well at least Cerrato is. You all KNOW that if we were to sign a FA WR or god forbid draft a WR, then people would be lambasting the fact that the man is an idiot... so, we are going to have the same well below average WRs as this year and HOPE that one gets smart quick (Thomas), one gets Earnest Ainsley to HHHEAAAAL (!) those knees (Kelly), and that Zorn figures out how to use TWO TE's in the WCO (Davis).

I know that watching Vinny on TV is very painful... the guy is just WEIRD looking and talks like a recovering cocaine addict from the 80's... but... his only draft he had control over made sense to me.

redskinjim · 01-01-2009, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

At one time in the past I definitely think Snyder was pulling the strings more often than not, and under Gibbs I think Vinny again took a backseat. Starting with last year's off-season Vinny is clearly running the show now, and I think it's only fair to judge him based on that going forward. I agree one year is not a proper evaluation of a draft class. Most people know this too but are too hell bent on taking swipes at Vinny at any cost.

we could have taken a lot of different wide outs .I liked the picks at first but think now we should have taken only one wide out. it looked good at the time we will see next year if they can play

01-01-2009, 09:41 AM	#1
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,448	Re: I guess no one likes VC. yeah but been aren't you assuming that you can fairly lay all those personnel failures at cerratos feet? I don't know how you can do that. Gibbs was in charge of personnel decisions under his title of team president. Cerratos had a role in scouting for sure, but what evidence do you have that it was cerratos and not Gibbs who chose not to address the lines? As for rinehart, why would he deserve to start over pete Kendall or randy Thomas as a rookie? Patience my son. Rinehart will have his day when Kendall is gone, whenever that may be. This is the first time anyone can definitively assign primary personnel responsibility to cerrato. If youre disappointed in player personnel, some of the blame has to lie with Gibbs and snyder, too. Its not fair to lay that on cerrato when he didnt hold decision making responsibility. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

01-01-2009, 09:54 AM	#2
Giantone Gamebreaker Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 14,374	Re: I guess no one likes VC. As proven with other teams you must hold people responsable for their actions and in football the end result is win and loss's,as I said before I think Zorn will be ok what hurt the Skins was the GM's (joke)inability to supply the team with the players needed,aka....O line and D line players.

01-01-2009, 10:04 AM	#3
Beemnseven Pro Bowl Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Virginia Beach Age: 51 Posts: 5,311	Re: I guess no one likes VC. Gibbs was never a personnel man, and if he had direct control and final say over draft picks, then fine, he deserves blame too. I tend to think that he deferred scouting, actual player research, and grading of prospects to other people -- Cerrato's division, for sure. It was Gibbs who ultimately looked at his team, his roster and made the final decision on the choices Cerrato presented to him. I don't think it's a leap to say that during Gibbs' reign the second time around, that while he had complete control, it was Cerrato who held the role of player-personnel, and it was he who advised Gibbs on which players to select. Gibbs just had the yes or no angle. In the end though, I believe the responsibility fell to Cerrato as to which groups of players Gibbs chose from.

01-01-2009, 10:29 AM	#5
Hail to the Redskins The Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Posts: 1,687	Re: I guess no one likes VC. Also, you know, I liked his thoughts with all of the draft picks last year... In my mind, it was clear that Cerrato thought that an O-Line of Samuels (Pro-Bowler), Kendall (solid vet starter), Rabach (decent), Thomas (one time Pro-Bowler), & Jansen/Heyer was good for the upcoming year and saw what we all saw last year... that our WR crew was our biggest weakness on offense on a team that went 9-7 with just one solid WR, thinking we were just a couple of pieces away from really going deep. He selected THREE receivers because of the whole "WRs can be a bust" thing, that is true. If we take 3, one has to hit, right? He picked 2 safties with the same logic in mind, and the one picked LOWER (Horton) actually turned out better than the the other (K Moore) The only problem is, he picked one receiver that had only ONE season as a starting WR in college, Devin Thomas, and one WR with knees worse than my grandfather... and one receiver who is a TE, which we happen to be set at. Let me say also that Fred Davis WILL be a great TE in the league. If he were on a team that needed a TE, he would have produced this year IMO. The issues with Thomas & Kelly were obvious to the whole league. Remember, they were supposed to be drafted in the top 25 picks. BUT, Cerrato knew we needed TALL receivers for Zorn's WCO and saw two "1st round projected WRs" and jumped... and I can't blame him for it. Going into the year we had a Pro-Bowl RB & FB, a solid line, and a young developing QB, and a OC that needed "BIG" targets, so again, Cerrato's draft = not bad logic. Also... he DID draft a lineman last year (Rinehart) for the aging GUARDS we have, because we have one Pro-Bowl T (Samuels), one T that still had some legs left (Jansen) and a backup that showed flashes as a rookie (Heyer). BUT... imagine if Zorn wasn't bringing in the WCO... would we been more open to a DeSean Jackson or Eddie Royal? (they aren't the "TALL" receivers the WCO "needs")... anyway, that's not Cerrato, the WCO dictated Thomas and Kelly. Regardless of all of this... lol... we are still SUPER SCREWED at WR right now, well at least Cerrato is. You all KNOW that if we were to sign a FA WR or god forbid draft a WR, then people would be lambasting the fact that the man is an idiot... so, we are going to have the same well below average WRs as this year and HOPE that one gets smart quick (Thomas), one gets Earnest Ainsley to HHHEAAAAL (!) those knees (Kelly), and that Zorn figures out how to use TWO TE's in the WCO (Davis). I know that watching Vinny on TV is very painful... the guy is just WEIRD looking and talks like a recovering cocaine addict from the 80's... but... his only draft he had control over made sense to me. __________________ “Sometimes it is not enough to our best; we must do what is required.” - Sir Winston Churchill (1874-1965) Last edited by Hail to the Redskins; 01-01-2009 at 10:38 AM.

I guess no one likes VC.

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