Some offseason optimism

[KI Skins Fan]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well, I agree that 13 is probably too high for Robinson. But he's been compared to Steve Hutchinson, who incidentally was a first round pick. Plus a lot of people are saying Robinson could possibly play T at well in the pros, though he's better suited for Guard.

I think if you can trade down to later in the first round, or up into the early 2nd round and pick up extra picks along the way, and Robinson is there...then he's a great pickup.

If Duke Robinson is comparable to Hutchinson as a player, then he's special and worth a 1st round pick. So, in view of our OL problems, I would rather take Duke at No. 13 than to risk losing him.

I remember wanting the Skins to take Hutchinson and being disappointed when we took 50/50 instead.

Get Jordan Gross or Stacy Andrews in Free Agency and Duke in the Draft and we'll be much better next season.

Note to Vinnie: Read and memorize the bold text above and obey my commands.

[LandrySlice]

I say we spend the 13th pick on Moreno, what the hell, we drafted Fred Davis last year with Pro Bowl Cooley, so now we need a high pick at a position with Pro Bowl Portis! Unless I am missing out on some sort of first round fullback legend to back Sellers! WHOOOOO! I love this time of year when we start talking draft and start seeing how crazy Vinny is gonna get!

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by GMScud

How on earth after an 8 win rookie season can we be calling Zorn a failure???

I guess your version of offseason optimism is hoping for epic failures from our head coach and front office, prompting yet another sweeping change...

Zorn inherited a team with a very strong running game from Joe Gibbs. We started 6-2 because we adhered to that running game. As the season went on, teams began to adjust to Zorn. How did Zorn adjust back? According to Clinton Portis, he tried to start changing things with the running game - the one thing that was working right! - and we went 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season.

We will not get better unless Zorn changes dramatically for the better in his 2nd year. Thus far, the only changes he has instituted have hurt the team, not helped it. If Zorn keeps his staff and continues to do what Zorn wants to do (and not what has been proven to work), I fully expect us to be a 6-10 team at best next year.

Zorn was a very poor hire by Vinny. He was - by far - the dumbest of all the new rookie coaching hires made in the last offseason. it looked that way at the time and it has been confirmed by what we've seen miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta do this year. Vinny sealed his fate with the Zorn hire and the 2009-2010 offseason can't come soon enough.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Vinny said during an interview that both he and Zorn had TWO years. my one hope is that Zorn and Vinny both prove what failures they are and get the axe and this time next year, we are talking about how glad we are to have Bill Cowher or Mike Shanahan as our coach for the next 10 years.

so a coach - Shanahan - that could not win a division that had an 8-8 division champ is better than a rookie coach that had an 8-8 record. The grass is always greener

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

so a coach - Shanahan - that could not win a division that had an 8-8 division champ is better than a rookie coach that had an 8-8 record. The grass is always greener

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

So, I have a few questions here

1. Who would you want as GM if Shanahan is the coach?

2. Why would you want to continue the WCO installe by Zorn when you just said the changes Zorn has brought have hurt the team, not helped it

3. Are you really hoping the team fails next year?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Shanahan has a proven record of success as a head coach... he just sucks at GM duties and is not a good evaluator or talent. Put him somewhere with a good GM and he will run a successful team. I also would like Shanahan because he could continue the WCO installed by Zorn, making it unnecessary to completely start over from scratch. That said, I would still prefer Cowher.

And I would again say Cowher has 1 SB in how many years. Why on earth can't we just allow people time to develop. Shanahan and Cowher were great because they had owners who allowed them to have up and down seasons. Shanahan hasn't been to the SB since when, had 3 mediocre seasons in a row and could never regain the magic he had with Elway and Davis. Why would he here. A similar statement can be made with Cowher. The NFC East is not the AFC North or West, it will always be more brutal then those two divisions. Snyder needs to, as he did with Gibbs, give Zorn years to develop to his full potential. Hopefully they chose wisely when they picked him.

[LandrySlice]

I would love to see Shanahan come here after next year, but lets get real, what big name really wants to come to this train wreck no matter what the money? Legendary future hall of fame coaches will want to go to a good organization with a real GM and an owner who isin't trying to play fantasy football with his team.

[davy]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Zorn inherited a team with a very strong running game from Joe Gibbs. We started 6-2 because we adhered to that running game. As the season went on, teams began to adjust to Zorn. How did Zorn adjust back? According to Clinton Portis, he tried to start changing things with the running game - the one thing that was working right! - and we went 2-6 in the 2nd half of the season.

We will not get better unless Zorn changes dramatically for the better in his 2nd year. Thus far, the only changes he has instituted have hurt the team, not helped it. If Zorn keeps his staff and continues to do what Zorn wants to do (and not what has been proven to work), I fully expect us to be a 6-10 team at best next year.

Zorn was a very poor hire by Vinny. He was - by far - the dumbest of all the new rookie coaching hires made in the last offseason. it looked that way at the time and it has been confirmed by what we've seen miami, Baltimore, and Atlanta do this year. Vinny sealed his fate with the Zorn hire and the 2009-2010 offseason can't come soon enough.

That is my biggest fear. Was the 6-2 start a carry over from Gibbs and is the 2-6 finish what we should expect from Zorn.

I'm trying very hard to think of something to be optimistic about but I have to admit I'm failing.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

So, I have a few questions here

1. Who would you want as GM if Shanahan is the coach?

2. Why would you want to continue the WCO installe by Zorn when you just said the changes Zorn has brought have hurt the team, not helped it

3. Are you really hoping the team fails next year?

1. I would interview Morocco Brown, Scott Pioli, Bill Parcells, and Mike Holmgren off the top of my head, if they are available. I would also offer Mike Ditka or Jimmy Johnson a ton of money to take the job, but the chances of that are slim to none. I would also consider other execs in the Giants or Patriots, and Eagles front offices - those are teams that have good drafts each and every year.

2. The WCO isnt the problem and i never indicated that it was - my criticism of Zorn was changing up the running game - the one part of the offense that WAS working - midseason. Also, Zorn plain sucks as a playcaller. Shanahan would be immensely superior in that capacity. he would also realize that sherman smith has no business being an offensive coordinator and hire someone with some talent.

3. If Vinny was being truthful when he said he would be fired if he didnt turn the team around by next year then yes, i do hope the team fails. This franchise will never Never NEVER NEVER return to its glory days until Vinny Cerrato is gone and we have a strong GM who does more than just act like an enabler to Snyder. I want whats best for this team long-term. If 2009 has to be horrible for that to happen, then yes, i want the team to fail. The higher our draft picks are in every round of the 2010 draft, the more enticing the GM and Head Coaching jobs will be to Cerrato and Zorns replacements.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by LandrySlice

I would love to see Shanahan come here after next year, but lets get real, what big name really wants to come to this train wreck no matter what the money? Legendary future hall of fame coaches will want to go to a good organization with a real GM and an owner who isin't trying to play fantasy football with his team.

Cerrato and Zorn are tied at the hip. If Zorn fails, Cerratos gone. So if we were in the market for a new HC next year, we would also be in the market for a new GM.

[BigHairedAristocrat]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Snyder needs to, as he did with Gibbs, give Zorn years to develop to his full potential. Hopefully they chose wisely when they picked him.

Theres a reason Zorns over 50 and no one ever offered him an offensive coordinator job - let alone a HC position. He got the job here because no one else wanted it - not because he was a good candidate.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

1. I would interview Morocco Brown, Scott Pioli, Bill Parcells, and Mike Holmgren off the top of my head, if they are available. I would also offer Mike Ditka or Jimmy Johnson a ton of money to take the job, but the chances of that are slim to none. I would also consider other execs in the Giants or Patriots, and Eagles front offices - those are teams that have good drafts each and every year.

2. The WCO isnt the problem and i never indicated that it was - my criticism of Zorn was changing up the running game - the one part of the offense that WAS working - midseason. Also, Zorn plain sucks as a playcaller. Shanahan would be immensely superior in that capacity. he would also realize that sherman smith has no business being an offensive coordinator and hire someone with some talent.

3. If Vinny was being truthful when he said he would be fired if he didnt turn the team around by next year then yes, i do hope the team fails. This franchise will never Never NEVER NEVER return to its glory days until Vinny Cerrato is gone and we have a strong GM who does more than just act like an enabler to Snyder. I want whats best for this team long-term. If 2009 has to be horrible for that to happen, then yes, i want the team to fail. The higher our draft picks are in every round of the 2010 draft, the more enticing the GM and Head Coaching jobs will be to Cerrato and Zorns replacements.

1. Mike Ditka as our GM? Really? Jimmy Johnson has been talked to before but the interest just isn't there. Forget about Parcells, he's staying in Miami and then probably finally retiring for good. I've thought for weeks that Pioli (Parcells' son in law incidentally) is going to KC and I'll stick with that belief. As for Morocco Brown, he seems like a solid young executive. But, a couple of questions, if he was brought in by Cerrato then why wouldn't Snyder send Brown (and Scott Campbell) for that matter packing as well? And how would he be any less of an "enabler" than you claim Cerrato to be?

2. Fine

3. Fine

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by BigHairedAristocrat

Theres a reason Zorns over 50 and no one ever offered him an offensive coordinator job - let alone a HC position. He got the job here because no one else wanted it - not because he was a good candidate.

I don't want to go off-topic but I might as well ask it here. How'd you come up with your nickname? I kinda like it. Reminds me of Sideshow Bob actually

Does it relate to your job or something?

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

1. Mike Ditka as our GM? Really? Jimmy Johnson has been talked to before but the interest just isn't there. Forget about Parcells, he's staying in Miami and then probably finally retiring for good. I've thought for weeks that Pioli (Parcells' son in law incidentally) is going to KC and I'll stick with that belief. As for Morocco Brown, he seems like a solid young executive. But, a couple of questions, if he was brought in by Cerrato then why wouldn't Snyder send Brown (and Scott Campbell) for that matter packing as well? And how would he be any less of an "enabler" than you claim Cerrato to be?

I was going to pounce on that one if you hadn't. Mike Ditka who traded us an ENTIRE DRAFT (not that we did much with it) for Ricky Williams, he's who you want as a GM? Is Mike Lynn not available?

I believe that if Snyder drops the hammer on Zorn and Vinny after this year he's going to give whomever comes in full control and autonomy to make all of the football decisions. Even he is smart enough to realize that everybody else has it figured out and he's got to get with the program.

Here's the challenge with the 'Big 3' though:
Cowher-He's very close to Marty, like mentor-mentee (or is it Mento?) close. It'd be really interesting to see if he'd come here after Marty was one and done.

Holmgren-If he comes, that means we just fired his boy Zorn and his system wasn't being run effectively. That's two major strikes to overcome.

Shanahan-He has a strong relationship and strong admiration for Jerry Jones. He's also known to be a bit of a front runner and from a pure talent base a Romo-R. Williams-Witten-Barber/Jones may be more attractive than QB TBD (cause Campbell will be gone if Zorn goes)-Moss-Cooley-Portis. Just some food for thought.