Cerrato wants more draft picks

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

Dude your acting like Thomas, Kelly and Davis were all bad picks. I think this coming season we will see what they are capable of. You can't say as of right now they were a bust.

BRO YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO ME THEN JUST SAY IT. Oh wait you did. lol. Anyway the thing I was trying draw attention to was the overkill on recievers with high picks. Despite the fact that among other things they could easily have gotten a nice number 2 tight end in 2007 with Ben Patrick (projected 3rd round by Mike Mayock), however we decided to go after Jordan Palmer only to cut him. All the while Patrick is providing decent production for Arizona including that nice two point conversion against the Eagles (Keep in mind the guy averages only 14.5 ypg but thats definately more then we got from Davis).

However among other things I do very much agree that the jury is still out. My fear is that as you go down the draft the number of quality tackles decreases at a much quicker rate. Very rarely will you see a guy like Joe Staley last as long as he did, and I wouldn't bank on finding the next Marcus McNeil or Tony Ugoh in the second round.

Right now all I want is for the team to sit pretty at 13 and take Michael Oher or BJ Rali. Preferably Oher because we need more help at Tackle and Tackles usually have an easier time coming in and contributing. Then follow that up with the best available guard or center. Find a quality depth guy in the 5th thats capable of collapsing the pocket, and then look for a special teams guy that might eventually become a servicealbe OLB.

To me that would be a wonderful draft.

Of course as said before I will not be surprised to see the team with a new running back, outside linebacker, and corner come draft day.

[SOUL-SKINS]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

BRO YOU GOT SOMETHING TO SAY TO ME THEN JUST SAY IT. Oh wait you did. lol. Anyway the thing I was trying draw attention to was the overkill on recievers with high picks. Despite the fact that among other things they could easily have gotten a nice number 2 tight end in 2007 with Ben Patrick (projected 3rd round by Mike Mayock), however we decided to go after Jordan Palmer only to cut him. All the while Patrick is providing decent production for Arizona including that nice two point conversion against the Eagles (Keep in mind the guy averages only 14.5 ypg but thats definately more then we got from Davis).

However among other things I do very much agree that the jury is still out. My fear is that as you go down the draft the number of quality tackles decreases at a much quicker rate. Very rarely will you see a guy like Joe Staley last as long as he did, and I wouldn't bank on finding the next Marcus McNeil or Tony Ugoh in the second round.

Right now all I want is for the team to sit pretty at 13 and take Michael Oher or BJ Rali. Preferably Oher because we need more help at Tackle and Tackles usually have an easier time coming in and contributing. Then follow that up with the best available guard or center. Find a quality depth guy in the 5th thats capable of collapsing the pocket, and then look for a special teams guy that might eventually become a servicealbe OLB.

To me that would be a wonderful draft.

Of course as said before I will not be surprised to see the team with a new running back, outside linebacker, and corner come draft day.

I actually agree with you DIRTBAG. I want to sit at #13 as well and take Oher. He will be a starter for 12 years. Then I think the center position should be addressed in round 3. and DL in round 5. But what about a place kicker. Do we go out and get one in free agency or do you draft the best avail. Place kickers are always over looked and are boy Suisham isn't cutting it.

[BaltimoreSkins]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

I actually agree with you DIRTBAG. I want to sit at #13 as well and take Oher. He will be a starter for 12 years. Then I think the center position should be addressed in round 3. and DL in round 5. But what about a place kicker. Do we go out and get one in free agency or do you draft the best avail. Place kickers are always over looked and are boy Suisham isn't cutting it.

We had a kid with a big league leg at the HS I teach at. He is down at South Carolina now and red shirted this season. From what his dad was telling me at game this year, the kicking coach told him there are hundreds of guys with legs who could kick in the NFL, but only about 50 have the head for it. Based on that, I would rather bring in a bunch of guys and assess them than waste a draft pick on one.

[44ever]

Originally Posted by SOUL-SKINS

I actually agree with you DIRTBAG. I want to sit at #13 as well and take Oher. He will be a starter for 12 years. Then I think the center position should be addressed in round 3. and DL in round 5. But what about a place kicker. Do we go out and get one in free agency or do you draft the best avail. Place kickers are always over looked and are boy Suisham isn't cutting it.

I think we keep pick 13. As far as a kicker is concerned Sushi isn't that bad. Well, ya he is but he has shown some promise. I would hate to trade down just for the sake of getting more pics if we can get 1 game changer at 13.

[BigRedskinDaddy]

I have a question for all the Vinny bashers out there. Personal feelings aside, do you believe it is possible for a person to grow into his or her role at that level, i.e. learn from experience and past mistakes? The league is rife with examples of successes who began miserably. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of so-called "great" HC's who flamed out dramatically in their first stints as such.

It's said that the only true road to success is through failure. I'd like to think Cerrato is on that path; not every NFL exec can be as big a hit as Bill Polian -- usually they have some serious growing pains to undergo before they "get it."

[44ever]

Originally Posted by BigRedskinDaddy

I have a question for all the Vinny bashers out there. Personal feelings aside, do you believe it is possible for a person to grow into his or her role at that level, i.e. learn from experience and past mistakes? The league is rife with examples of successes who began miserably. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of so-called "great" HC's who flamed out dramatically in their first stints as such.

It's said that the only true road to success is through failure. I'd like to think Cerrato is on that path; not every NFL exec can be as big a hit as Bill Polian -- usually they have some serious growing pains to undergo before they "get it."

I think that is true in most aspects in life as long as you are willing to learn from your mistakes and make the nessesary adjustments/changes to succeed

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by BigRedskinDaddy

I have a question for all the Vinny bashers out there. Personal feelings aside, do you believe it is possible for a person to grow into his or her role at that level, i.e. learn from experience and past mistakes? The league is rife with examples of successes who began miserably. Off the top of my head I can think of a handful of so-called "great" HC's who flamed out dramatically in their first stints as such.

It's said that the only true road to success is through failure. I'd like to think Cerrato is on that path; not every NFL exec can be as big a hit as Bill Polian -- usually they have some serious growing pains to undergo before they "get it."

I def don't have the expertise to answer. Just two thoughts though... not sure the HC comparison works. VC's real duty as I understand it is to get the very best talent into Redskins Park whereas the HC organizes, motivates and fosters that talent into results. Different skill set IMO and while the HC works w/ those players, builds rapport and basically turns experiences into knowledge, the talent gatherer has to evaluate a laundry list characteristics and various intangibles that separate players from eachother. I'm totally theorizing here but it seems a successful talent evaluator would've been around ball players for a long time and have a shit ton of experience to be really good at what they do.

[SmootSmack]

Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.

[MTK]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.

Or perhaps he's not seeing much interest in those two or the value simply isn't there. That would be my best guess.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Or perhaps he's not seeing much interest in those two or the value simply isn't there. That would be my best guess.

Yeah possibly, that's why I threw in that "for whatever reason"

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

Well shoot, I've been telling you all for weeks that was their goal this year-to get more picks. But him saying they'd like to trade down, when recently he said they wouldn't look to trade down is Vinny a) just covering his bases and not showing his hand, b) having changed his mind, or c) having decided against, for whatever reason, using Rogers and or Moss as trade bait.

Or it could be both-trade down and trade Rogers/Moss

It's fine that he says he wants more picks, but at what cost? Will he trade picks from 2010 and then say the same thing next January? And you also have to ask yourselves, well maybe next year is the better year to have draft picks anyway. If there's no CBA agreement a lot of guys who would otherwise be free agents won't be; and we've already seen a lot of good players opt to stay in college one more year. So there's a lot to consider.

And I would argue that we do have depth and we do have youth in many areas of the team. But the problem is we have a lot of late round players (Blades, Golston, Montgomery, Heyer, Alexander, Tryon, etc) who in many cases are probably destined to just be solid depth. But we're stuck putting them in starting roles when they're not really ready or probably even suited for it. Every team needs guys like that to lean on, but not to carry them. What we need are young stars, not young depth.

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

Huh? How do you figure? If we trade '10 picks for more '09 picks, how can we repeat the behavior next year if we have no picks to work with??

[Bill B]

Originally Posted by WaldSkins

Maybe every year he will trade next years picks to select players in this years draft. If he does it every year, we really wouldnt be losing anything.

Actually Waldskins - from what I understand if you trade picks in later years for the current draft you lose value - for example if you wanted another teams 1st round pick this year and were willing to trade future picks - the way the point system works would not be 1 for 1, but rather the team trading the future pick (in this case the Skins) would have to give up more picks to complete the deal (like a 1st and a 4th). Here is a link and qoute to what I am referring to:

NFL Draft - NFL draft preview and analysis from Pro Football Weekly

"In instances where next year’s draft picks are traded, teams generally divide the league into quadrants, ranking how they expect a team to finish next year. If the Chargers were to deal with the Eagles, who are expected by many to finish in the top eight next year after an active offseason, San Diego could expect a 2005 first-round pick belonging to Philadelphia to be worth 680-800 points. If the Chargers were considering a trade with the 49ers, who are expected to finish in the bottom eight after depleting their roster of much of its veteran talent to better position the team financially for the future, they could expect to receive value ranging from 1,400 to 3,000 points. However, because there is so much parity in the league and it's difficult to predict where a club will finish, some teams generally expect to receive about 1,000 points in exchange for a future first-round pick from a bad team and 750 from a contender. Also, in any trade involving draft choices in both the current year and a future year, most teams will value, say, a fourth-round pick in the current draft as being worth a third-rounder in next year's draft — the team receiving the future pick moving up a round in return for having to wait an extra year to exercise its pick.

So basically using this methodolgy if the Skins keep trading future picks they are mortgaging their future even more....

[MTK]

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

Guys really... we've had one season where we know for sure that Vinny is calling the shots, or at least is calling the good majority. Last year's draft class needs another year or two before we can really judge it, and this year call me crazy but I think we'll see a commitment to getting some lineman in here.

I disagree. I think we should judge draft picks within a week of when they were drafted. It's only logical