2009 Skins Off Season Plans Ideas, Draft and FA plus cuts

[gaudiomatt]

I know theres probably been a lot of these but I just wanted to throw some ideas out there see how people react they might not all be possible but I think the ideas make a lot of sense.

1. Cut all the enormous contracts on this team not performing. This has to be done with some timing though I don't think it should all be done on day one.

A. Shawn Springs
B. Marcus Washington
C. Cornelius Griffin
D. Reed Doughty
E. Phillip Daniels
F. Casey Rabach
G. Shawn Suisham
H. Jason Fabini
I. James Thrash
H. Let Golston and Kendall go
J. I also think we need to see how the draft and FA play out. But Jason Taylor needs to take a 2-3M$ paycut or release him if we've picked up some extra DE depth, it sucks how it worked out with this guy but it is what it is.

I'm bias, I hate Shawn Springs, He doesn't play because he's a woman not because he's injured. He get's paid the second highest salary on the team because Cerratto is dumb, not because he's good.

2. Resign our players.
A. Sign Denagelo Hall for the offer we gave him, it's very reasonable and 12m guranteed is all he deserves he won't get much more anywhere else and the offer is extremely reasonable he will get paid a lot if he performs.
B. Resign Montgomery and Alexander for cheap salaries. This should be pretty easy.
C. Resign Carlos Rogers for the same deal we gave Deangelo Hall. I completely don't understand the Hall or Rogers debate. Shawn Springs is the most chronically injured player on the team and does not have Roger's coverage skills or Hall's int playmaking ability. Rogers is a young up and coming CB and we could sign him before he breaks out and makes a big payday somehwere else next year in free agency.

Free Agency:
This is kinda speculative know one knows exactly how this will play out and subsequently this will affect the draft greatly but this is what I think is possible and makes a lot of sense for this team, unfortunately those are the type of decisions Cerrato hates so heres my first order of business.
1. Sign Buccaneers personel man Bruce Allen as our GM, a team with a great track record of drafting lineman and getting quality skill players when he takes them early.
2. Sign Stacy Andrews to take over at RT, he should be cheap coming off an injury and is a quality tackle. He can play at pro bowl levels, if he doesn't perform stephon heyer can take over and Jansen is a solid backup.
3. Sign Ritchie Incognito, Give us some depth at G, Whoever performs out of Icognito, Thomas and Rhinehart should start and we can add another G for cheap in FA or late in the draft.
4. Sign Jovan Haye or Rocky Bernard or both. This would be an upgrade and neither is gonna completely fix our dline woes but this would be a great quality value pickup.
5. Get a cheap backup center for a low price.
6. Sign Michael Boley, Leroy Hill, or Angelo Crowell. Crowder and Dansby are both the hotter players right now but they're teams succes is going to massively drive up their price tags and we do not need to be spending big money.
7. Sign a cheap veteran CB to give us some more depth after letting springs go.
8. Sign Kicker Shayne Graham.
7. Key message, fill holes without breaking bank on massive contracts especialy guys like Gross or Peppers or Haynesworth. We have a track record of making these guys not live up to the money we give them. This seems reasonable to me and with the cuts we would have made we should have some decent money to spend.

Draft:
1. Trade out of 13 pick to something in the 22 - 28 range. Try and get a third and sixth rounder in the process.
1. 1st round 26th pick - Peria Jerry DT.
2. 3rd round A - Eric Wood or Jonathon Luigs C.
3. 3rd Round B - Connor Barwin DE. If he's not there go G or DE.
4. 5th round A - Zach Fulton LB
5. 5th Round B - Pat White QB who probably won't be there but if he's not fill our roster out with needs on the oline and dline.

Give me your thoughts.

[gaudiomatt]

I also think we need to see how the draft and FA play out. But Jason Taylor needs to take a 2-3M$ paycut or release him if we've picked up some extra DE depth, it sucks how it worked out with this guy but it is what it is.

[MiraclesHappen07]

I would get rid of Taylor if he dosent take a pay cut. Having someone getting old in age taken a big chunk of salary isnt going to cut it, and i agree we need to get rid of Griffin, Washington, E.t.c. I would like to see Springs go, i love the guy but he has clearly lost a step or two and is injured way to much, but with the way things are going with Carlos and Hall he will probaly stay around another year. Would also like to see Smoot gone, but meh, too many holes to fill not enough money..

[A10sROCK]

Good analysis. the question is whether we start a youth movement this season or next? Whether we work to take our best draft picks and top FA money toward the trenches or toward 'Best Player Available' (BPA) or in positions of need.

Personally, I would drop Washington, Springs, Jansen , Taylor, Collins, Griffin, ARE, Betts and Fabini. I'd spend every draft pick for the OL and DL. I'd pick up the best backup WCO QB and the best scatback RB we can afford. Bring up all the draft picks, FA from last year and this season and play them to see if they're NFL material or not. The best player wins the position.

Call it a 'rebuilding season' from tomorrow on.

What do I think will happen? Very modest changes, mediocre draft picks and an average team. A QB controversy from mid-season on. Hope I'm wrong, but I just don't think Vinny has the juice to be a good GM. Zorn doesn't have the power to get the players he wants or needs. This team has just enough talent to keep from totally imploding but not enough to be more than good.

[gaudiomatt]

I think we have a very unique situation because this is not a team that necessarily is make or break, depending on how the offseason goes where probably looking at 3 Wins or 2 losses from 8-8. We have quality, we just have a lot of expendable dead weight that our FO seems unbeleivably capable of keeping and a lot of hype about a coach and QB controversy but its actually quite simple. If we do terrible, absolutley terrible Zorn should go, otherwise he should indefinitely stay this teams biggest problem is consistency and we've gone past the point where we think bringing in a new big name coach is going to fix this team. At QB, if campbell plays decent he'll stay, if not Brennan might get a shot, if he flashes he'll stay, if not we'll be shopping next season. I personally think Brennan will end up our starter even though it's a long shot.

[gaudiomatt]

Originally Posted by A10sROCK

Personally, I would drop Washington, Springs, Jansen , Taylor, Collins, Griffin, ARE, Betts and Fabini.

I thought about cutting Collins but if Campbell goes down I totally expect Brennan to take his job permanently, but from a personel perspective thats a complete uncertaintity so we'll need Collins and although he's not a WCO offense qb, he obviously can manage games and thats what you need.

[ChickenMonkey]

Draft:
1. Trade out of 13 pick to the 20 Detroit. Try and get a third and sixth rounder in the process.
1. 1st round 26th pick - Peria Jerry DT.
2. 3rd round A - Eric Wood
3. 3rd Round B - T.Tupoug OT
4. 5th round A - R.Ayers DE
5. 6th Round A -J. Williams OLB
5. 6th Round B -A. Foster RBC

Cut..Springs, Taylor, Boshetti, Fabini, Washington, Thrash, P.Kendall

Add FA Kalif Barnes OT Jags, Leroy Hill OLB Seattle, Mike Goff G Chargers

[gaudiomatt]

Also if we don't get a tackle in free agency and take one with our first pick I will freak the F out worse then I did last year. Cerratto is an idiot and he did whatever the hell he wanted last year and got everyone to jump on the WR bandwagon with him, It's the same idiots who agreed with that who are going to jump on the RT or DE bandwagon this year. If Cerratto manages to get the flashiest player he can at either position and not improve the interior of our O and D lines I am going to be so incredibly pist off as the team fails to make the playoffs again I might actually kill him.

[Paintrain]

I'm going to sit back and see what we do in the first 2 weeks after the Super Bowl with our older vets before getting my expectations up or down for the offseason. That's going to set the tone for our spring and summer and ultimately next season.

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by gaudiomatt

Also if we don't get a tackle in free agency and take one with our first pick I will freak the F out worse then I did last year. Cerratto is an idiot and he did whatever the hell he wanted last year and got everyone to jump on the WR bandwagon with him, It's the same idiots who agreed with that who are going to jump on the RT or DE bandwagon this year. If Cerratto manages to get the flashiest player he can at either position and not improve the interior of our O and D lines I am going to be so incredibly pist off as the team fails to make the playoffs again I might actually kill him.

I totally agree with you but keep in mind it all depends on what Blache believes his system needs and what he tells Vinny to go after. If Blache is happy with his mediocre middle simply stopping the run by plugging holes and he wants all his rush to come from DE/LB/CB/S ..then what do you think he's going to ask for? GW's system was based off of the CB/S rush. I think Blache incorporates more DE and LB rush's but I may be way off. I would love to see a dominant DT. Someone who could push the pocket so the QB can't step up and avoid the rush from the DE's.

You forgot one glaring problem. With out a decent WR's coach who can and is proven to be able to coach and develope players at the NFL level we are doomed. Build up the lines all you want but we will still only be as good as our weakest link. Hixon.

I thought Zorn said something about the coach's evaluating themselves then evaluating the players and plays that were called. Every person who ends up speaking from a coach's stand point keeps mentioning how they are still evaluating the players to see who they want to keep and where they may want to go in the draft. Did they completely skip over the WR coach's performance? Did they turn a blinds eye? We have Moss who's talent level has dropped off for whatever reason...double teams, injury, whatever. You have ARE who's talent level has dropped off since coming from Pitt. again for whatever reason....not being used in the right position. Thrash who is talked about as knowing all the WR positions can't even see the field unless there is an injury. We go out and pick up two top #1 WR's by many accounts in Kelly and Thomas and they can't catch a cold or appear to suck. Why? It's called coaching. Developing. We don't have that. But for whatever reason the coach's did not evaluate themselves as promised and are evaluating plays, scheme, and players as if they are not the possible culprits. Shame shame. I hope none of you get too amped up when we still look like a mediocre team cause we have settled with a mediocre WR coach who can't teach chemistry.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by gaudiomatt

I know theres probably been a lot of these but I just wanted to throw some ideas out there see how people react they might not all be possible but I think the ideas make a lot of sense.

1. Cut all the enormous contracts on this team not performing. This has to be done with some timing though I don't think it should all be done on day one.

A. Shawn Springs
B. Marcus Washington
C. Cornelius Griffin
D. Reed Doughty
E. Phillip Daniels
F. Casey Rabach
G. Shawn Suisham
H. Jason Fabini
I. James Thrash
H. Let Golston and Kendall go

Well you probably can't and shouldn't cut all of them. But here are my thoughts: Springs-I'd love to keep him if possible; Griffin-if we get an interior DL then just let him go. He's given us four solid years but I don't know that he can give us five; Doughty-love the guy but there's no place for him here; Daniels-very underrated but a 35 year old coming off a torn ACL really can't add much value to us at this point; Washington-see Griffin; Golston-he's young, works hard, and is solid depth, keep him; Suisham-I'm telling you we'd all like to think he's gone but it's not a lock, not by a long shot; Rabach/Fabini/Kendall-we just can't afford to let them all go because we probably won't add enough pieces to the OL in one offseason. I think Fabini is gone though.

B. Resign Montgomery and Alexander for cheap salaries. This should be pretty easy.

I have a feeling keeping Montgomery may not be so easy, but in the end I think he stays. Alexander should be a lock

1. Sign Buccaneers personel man Bruce Allen as our GM, a team with a great track record of drafting lineman and getting quality skill players when he takes them early.

On the Allen bandwagon, I see. What quality skill players are you referring to? Michael Clayton? Maurice Stovall? Dexter Jackson?

2. Sign Stacy Andrews to take over at RT, he should be cheap coming off an injury and is a quality tackle. He can play at pro bowl levels, if he doesn't perform stephon heyer can take over and Jansen is a solid backup.

Not a bad pickup, but you probably have to decide before you even sign Andrews that Heyer or Jansen is gone

[quote]7. Key message, fill holes without breaking bank on massive contracts especialy guys like Gross or Peppers or Haynesworth. We have a track record of making these guys not live up to the money we give them. This seems reasonable to me and with the cuts we would have made we should have some decent money to spend. [QUOTE]

I see what you're saying and I can see the team heading in that direction, but I don't think our problem is that we need to find quality depth to fill holes so much as we need quality starters to allow the quality depth we currently have to go back to being quality depth, instead of being thrust into starter roles and be overmatched.

Draft:
1. Trade out of 13 pick to something in the 22 - 28 range. Try and get a third and sixth rounder in the process.
1. 1st round 26th pick - Peria Jerry DT.
2. 3rd round A - Eric Wood or Jonathon Luigs C.
3. 3rd Round B - Connor Barwin DE. If he's not there go G or DE.
4. 5th round A - Zach Fulton LB
5. 5th Round B - Pat White QB who probably won't be there but if he's not fill our roster out with needs on the oline and dline.

Another person jumping on Barwin Bandwagon

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by gaudiomatt

Also if we don't get a tackle in free agency and take one with our first pick I will freak the F out worse then I did last year. Cerratto is an idiot and he did whatever the hell he wanted last year and got everyone to jump on the WR bandwagon with him, It's the same idiots who agreed with that who are going to jump on the RT or DE bandwagon this year. If Cerratto manages to get the flashiest player he can at either position and not improve the interior of our O and D lines I am going to be so incredibly pist off as the team fails to make the playoffs again I might actually kill him.

LOL. No doubt. I've said more than once that if we don't use our first pick overall (whether it's the 13th pick or lower b/c of a trade) on an offensive lineman, I'm changing the channel.

[SmootSmack]

Originally Posted by GMScud

LOL. No doubt. I've said more than once that if we don't use our first pick overall (whether it's the 13th pick or lower b/c of a trade) on an offensive lineman, I'm changing the channel.

What if it's a defensive lineman?

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

What if it's a defensive lineman?

Actually, I'll be okay with a D-lineman as our 1st choice if we've traded down and have added at least a 2nd round pick as a result. That will be, of course, if we use said 2nd round pick on the O-line. Sigh... I just want so badly for us to use draft picks on lineman.

[Trample the Elderly]

My thoughts on your thoughts:

(A) S.Springs should be let go, or restructured for a short term contract to move over to safety. Give him a two year contract at least until he can be replaced through the draft or with an undrafted rookie. He's a better football player than Hall, Smoot, or Rogers, period, when you can get him on the field. He does owe us some money though.

(B) M.Washington, Cut and resign on the cheap. If you let him go you have to replace him. Keep him around until we have someone to replace him with. A healthy rested M.Washington is a good asset to have waiting on the bench in week 12 2009 when Alfred Fincher or M.SinClair go down for the rest of the season. He's the most likely to go though.

(C) C. Griffin, Keep for another year until he can be replaced through the draft. We don't have a quality player to replace him with.

(D) R.Doughty, Resign on the cheap, This will probably happen. Horton was injured at the end of last year. He's a draft pick and a free agent. If I'm not mistaken if he isn't resigned we get a pick in future drafts

(E) P.Daniels, Cut. We've got three live bodies to fill that hole for now and we can replace him through the draft next year.

(F) C.Raback, Let the man compete for a spot as a guard or tackle. If he doesn't cut it as a starter or at least a quality back-up, cut him at the final 53 man roster date.

(G) S.Suisham, Competition will be brought in during the training camp at this position and for the punter spot. JZ has already stated this. He's a FA and we'll probably let him go regardless unless we can't find someone better.

(H) J.Fabini, cut.

(I) James Thrash, there's no reason to keep him on the roster. He's doing nothing on special teams and the rookie WRs need field time for better or worse. Bring an undrafted rookie or a modestly priced FA to replace him.

(J) K.Golston, He's a free agent this year. Toss up? His back up (A.montgomery) is another draft pick and also a free agent. It would be unwise to let both of them go in favor of a FA who doesn't know the system.

(K) P.Kendall, Why let him go if just to save money? He's also a free agent and if you let him go you still have to bring in another FA to replace him. Is Rhinehardt ready to go? Is Devon Clark? He's old but is he getting beat? Of all the O-linemen he's one of the keepers. We can't replace the whole O-line in one draft.

I'm not sold on Hall. I'd like to have all of the Secondary back next year including Smoot. We'll probably have to replace him later on. The Secondary is the least of our problems right now.

Montgomery and Evans are free agents this year and draft picks. Alexander is neither. There isn't anyone else on right side DT.

Sign Rogers, he's good enough for a pay day and has room for growth. I wouldn't break the bank for Hall or Rogers. What they offered Hall should be good enough for Rogers. I like Rogers more but Greg Blache fired him from his starting position for a reason.

(1) Bruce Allen shouldn't be hired as a GM. If anything he can brought in to help with the Cap. No GM is going to come here if we don't keep Vinny a few years calling the shots. If anything we should get someone who is a better GM than Allen or Cerato like, dare I say it, the Tuna. They'll not come unless Snyder lives down his reputation of meddling and gives Vinny total control for at least the tenure of JZ. They should both go at the same time. If or when they do then we can totally rebuild.

(2) The word on the street is that Jansen is going over to guard until next year when he'll be released because of the Cap.

(3) Stacy Andrews at RT, yep. Not to mention Willie Colon, Max Starks. Jahri Evans, Chris Kemoeatu, Mark Setterstrom, or Jovan Hayes. These guys can be a quick hole to plug at Tackle until we can get a draft pick for the position and get him up to speed.

(4) Jovan Haye, younger hole filler until we can draft that position.

(5) Rickie Incognito or Jason Brown. I'd rather draft Alex Mack. Either way Raback is getting beat at that poition.

(6) Sign Michael Boley, Leroy Hill, or Angelo Crowell. Why not? They'll not command a lot of money. Bring in some undrafted rookies to compete during training camp.

(7) Sign a cheap veteran CB to give us some more depth after letting springs go. (I can see that) I'd rather give Tryon the playing time and have an undrafted rookie on the bench.

(8) Shane Graham or Mick Nuggent? This will probably happen.

(9) Key message, fill holes without breaking the bank on massive contracts, especialy on guys like Gross, Peppers, or Haynesworth. We have a track record of making FAs not live up to the money we give them. This seems reasonable to me. With the cuts we should have some decent money to spend.
(Agreed. I would consider Jordan Gross though only because he's younger than Peppers and Haynesworth, nor does he have their durability issues. We also have better luck with FA on the lines. Almost all of our offensive line-men are FAs. Jansen, Heyer, and Rhinehardt are draft picks.)

Don't waste a 13th pick. We might or might not get that good of a pick for a long time. We need the best player available for need. That is Jason Smith or Alex Mack. Yes, we argued this already on the other thread. But with either of these players we'll get a solid guy for years to come and that is a real need for us right now.

We can argue the draft until the cows come home. I think if we get a tackle or Center we should get the best available and those are our most pressing needs right now.