lets discuss the free agents we really dont want and why!

[munny]

I don't mind seeing vick on the field... just not OUR field. The simple fact is that he is a quarterback that can't PASS.
Great athlete? check.
Big Arm? check?
Can hit the broad side of a barn? FAIL.
Can understand the playbook and scheme? FAIL

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by munny

I don't mind seeing vick on the field... just not OUR field. The simple fact is that he is a quarterback that can't PASS.
Great athlete? check.
Big Arm? check?
Can hit the broad side of a barn? FAIL.
Can understand the playbook and scheme? FAIL

I disagree with your observations on these 2 areas.

First off, many of Vicks passes would hit recievers in the hands or the numbers and they wouldn't catch the ball.

Secondly, Vick much like our own JC had several offenses to learn over a short period of time. The one offense that he spent the most time in was a version of the WCO ran by Jim Mora Jr. He has had plenty of time to mull over the WCO. I'm sure he's got it.

While in the WCO Vick's only reliable target was Crumpler. The two of them thrived together. Crumpler was a Pro Bowler with Vick throwing to him. What has Crumpler done without Vick? I believe that if you give Vick some halfway decent recievers, then you have a sick offense both in the passing and the running game.

Now Vick might have some issues throwing to the smaller recievers like Moss just like JC does. They both need bigger targets to be successfull, but one is a dual threat and the other doesn't even know how to slide.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Angry

I disagree with your observations on these 2 areas.

First off, many of Vicks passes would hit recievers in the hands or the numbers and they wouldn't catch the ball.

Secondly, Vick much like our own JC had several offenses to learn over a short period of time. The one offense that he spent the most time in was a version of the WCO ran by Jim Mora Jr. He has had plenty of time to mull over the WCO. I'm sure he's got it.

While in the WCO Vick's only reliable target was Crumpler. The two of them thrived together. Crumpler was a Pro Bowler with Vick throwing to him. What has Crumpler done without Vick? I believe that if you give Vick some halfway decent recievers, then you have a sick offense both in the passing and the running game.

Now Vick might have some issues throwing to the smaller recievers like Moss just like JC does. They both need bigger targets to be successfull, but one is a dual threat and the other doesn't even know how to slide.

Vick only learned two offenses during his NFL career and had ample time in each of them. The first one being Reeves system (which was really the best fit for him as it really went out of it's way to protect him) and the second one being the WCO under Mora along with Greg Knapp (Mora's OC friend which if some of you will remember was one of the main reasons Mora didn't take the Skins job as he would have had to have Zorn at OC instead of Knapp).

"He has had plenty of time to mull over the WCO. I'm sure he's got it."
You would think but keep in mind the guys never thrown over 57% percent and in the WCO thats a huge problem. In fact each year his completion percentage got worse for all three years he was in the WCO. In his final season he managed to complete only 52.6% of his passes.

I will concede Crumpler not doing much since Vick left but at the same time you have to look at Roddy White who the Falcons throught of as a bust untill the Redman/Harrington/Leftwich platoon showed that he could be a pro-bowl reciever. Ryan helped confirm that this past year.

Ironically if you look at the Falcons a lot of their problems in the closing of the Vick era was because they used so many resources to try and acquire passing targets for Vick that could have been used elsewhere (sound familiar). I'm pretty sure everyone here remembers the Perless Price fiasco and to top it off they used two first round picks on recievers thereafter because they kept on thinking that the problem was Vick didn't have people to throw to when the fact of the matter is the QB wasn't a very good passer.

[KLHJ2]

You would think but keep in mind the guys never thrown over 57% percent and in the WCO thats a huge problem.

I still Blame that on the recievind corps. They could not catch.

I will concede Crumpler not doing much since Vick left but at the same time you have to look at Roddy White who the Falcons throught of as a bust untill the Redman/Harrington/Leftwich platoon showed that he could be a pro-bowl reciever. Ryan helped confirm that this past year.

Imagine that... after 3 seasons Roddy White finally developed into a reciever! In past arguments on this site the majority of us here have come to the conclusion that 3 years is about how long it takes for a reciever to develop.

Ironically if you look at the Falcons a lot of their problems in the closing of the Vick era was because they used so many resources to try and acquire passing targets for Vick that could have been used elsewhere (sound familiar). I'm pretty sure everyone here remembers the Perless Price fiasco and to top it off they used two first round picks on recievers thereafter because they kept on thinking that the problem was Vick didn't have people to throw to when the fact of the matter is the QB wasn't a very good passer

Once again look at the game film. He hit them right in the hands. I lived in Georgia at 2 out of 3 of Vicks last years in ATL. I saw more of Vick and the Falcons than I wanted to. It discusted me. The only thing more sickening than watching Vick run wild was watching all of the dropped passes by his WR's. You cannot blame the QB for stone hands and alligator arms.

[Dirtbag59]

Originally Posted by Angry

I still Blame that on the recievind corps. They could not catch.

Maybe the year he threw 56% you could argue that but when a QB throws 52% and even 50% during his shortened season, well thats not just a problem with his recievers. Thats a QB problem. The most you can spot him is probably 3%-5% points and the upper part of that is stretching it. However if you demanded perfection for your recievers then you could consideerably boost your completion percentage but in 2008 the lowest number of drops was 13. The highest was 38 (JAX), in which case if all 38 passes were caught Garrards completion percentage would go up a little over 7% from 62% to 69% but thats just not realistic to expect a team to not have any dropped passes.

[KLHJ2]

Originally Posted by Dirtbag359

Maybe the year he threw 56% you could argue that but when a QB throws 52% and even 50% during his shortened season, well thats not just a problem with his recievers. Thats a QB problem. The most you can spot him his probably 3%-5% points and the upper part of that is stretching it. Plus you can't count on going a season without drops from pass catchers.

I guess that maybe you need to see it first hand before you can truly understand what I'm talking about. It is not much of an exaggeration when I say that they dropped almost everything. It's unfortunate that youtube does not have lowlight videos on NFL players.

To put it into perspective do you remember our game against the Packers the season before last and how many balls our recievers dropped? That is what Vick went through almost every game. All of the Falcon's fans knew it too.

If you look at some of the videos of Vick's abbreviated training camp 2 seasons ago you will see his accuracy. Also, if you read the posts under the video's you will see people clowning about how the recievers were finally catching passes.

I will completely ignor any comments about how terrible he was at the QB competetion before he was convicted. He obviously hasd alot of S**t on his mind. I give him a pass.

[Eknox]

Originally Posted by Angry

I disagree with your observations on these 2 areas.

First off, many of Vicks passes would hit recievers in the hands or the numbers and they wouldn't catch the ball.

Secondly, Vick much like our own JC had several offenses to learn over a short period of time. The one offense that he spent the most time in was a version of the WCO ran by Jim Mora Jr. He has had plenty of time to mull over the WCO. I'm sure he's got it.

While in the WCO Vick's only reliable target was Crumpler. The two of them thrived together. Crumpler was a Pro Bowler with Vick throwing to him. What has Crumpler done without Vick? I believe that if you give Vick some halfway decent recievers, then you have a sick offense both in the passing and the running game.

Now Vick might have some issues throwing to the smaller recievers like Moss just like JC does. They both need bigger targets to be successfull, but one is a dual threat and the other doesn't even know how to slide.

well said.