Madoff's New Home: Cell the Size of Walk-in Closet

[gibbsisgod]

Originally Posted by firstdown

Thats why some say that the judge should have denied his plea agreement and not accepted his quilty plea and forced it to go to trial. What that guy did is the same thing the goverment does evryday with our social security money.

I haven't been following this that closely but I don't think it was a plea agreement. He just pled guilty to all charges. He had no deal with the prosecution. If he wanted any kind of agreement he would need to give up the money or at least give up accomplices. He's not gonna do that unless his offer is too good to be true.

[70Chip]

Some of the money went to pay for the lavish lifestyle of his family and associates. The bulk of it however was probably paid back to investors as dividends to maintain the illusion of propriety, with the earliest investors probably getting back more than they put in. That's how pyramid schemes work. Some investors did quite well but we won't here about them for a while, because they have no motive to come forward. In fact they would probably like to disappear, because there are laws that will require them to forfeit any returns they got, so whatever is left can be distributed more fairly

Obviously Madoff should rot, but for some reason I can't get as worked up as everybody else at the plight of the victims. I'll give you two reasons why:

1. Somebody that has 5 or 10 million dollars to lose in the first place also has real assets - house(s), car(s), jewelry, that they can liquidate and live on (although living like regular people will surely seem like a hardship) Also, Mort Zuckerman and Steven Spielberg will be okay. Kevin Bacon lost everything, but if he makes just three movies he'll make enough loot to live fairly well. The bottom line here is that losing a small fortune is not a tragedy to me in the same way that say, childhood cancer is. There is hardship and then there is hardship.

2. Madoff suckered these people the same way grifters and confidence artists have been suckering people for years. He appealed to their own greed. If you have 5 million dollars, you can make extremely safe investments and still see annual returns in the six digits. Along comes Madoff and he says, "6% is for schmucks. You're way too smart to JUST earn 6%. Someone as intelligent and good looking as you deserves at least 11% or 12% and I can make that happen." At the more basic level the scam might go like this. Guy shows up at an old widow ladies door and he says "I have this check from the government for $5,000. Problem is I can't cash it for two weeks. I'm really desperate for cash so if you'll just give me $3,000 now, I'll sign this check over to you and you'll make $2,000 for just waiting 14 days." She tells herself she's doing a good deed for this poor soul, but she's really in it for the $2,000. The fault is not in our stars, it's in ourselves. It's their own greed and vanity what does them in.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by gibbsisgod

I haven't been following this that closely but I don't think it was a plea agreement. He just pled guilty to all charges. He had no deal with the prosecution. If he wanted any kind of agreement he would need to give up the money or at least give up accomplices. He's not gonna do that unless his offer is too good to be true.

I guess I might have used that a little out of context. What I really meant is that the judge had agreed to acept his guilty plea which was agreed upon before he pled guilty. I read that in an article but I cannot find it at this time. Not sure if it makes that much difference but it would sure be nice if they could track down some of the money so the poor people who got ripped off.

[Trample the Elderly]

I don't feel bad for the victims that much. I mean I do feel for them. There was a guy on the radio who lost everything. What I'd like to know is where was the oversight? He didn't get caught until he ran out of steam? I bet if they did a proper investigation then they'd have turned up a lot of corrupt people. It is hard for me to feel bad for greedy people but you know what. . . . stealing is stealing. I don't care if they were rich or only had two pennies to rub together. Bernie I hope you rot in pound you in the a** prison for the rest of your natural life.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

I don't feel bad for the victims that much. I mean I do feel for them. There was a guy on the radio who lost everything. What I'd like to know is where was the oversight? He didn't get caught until he ran out of steam? I bet if they did a proper investigation then they'd have turned up a lot of corrupt people. It is hard for me to feel bad for greedy people but you know what. . . . stealing is stealing. I don't care if they were rich or only had two pennies to rub together. Bernie I hope you rot in pound you in the a** prison for the rest of your natural life.

What would make someone greedy if they had purchased an investment that was providing great returns on their money? I'm like you and would love to know how he got this over on the SEC for so long. Well after I typied that last sentence and thought I'd try and look it up. Here is a good article on how this got by the SEC. The best thing about the article is a link at the bottom of the page that reads " How To Start A Ponzi Scheme". I think part of the problem is that he was so well known even after the SEC look at his books and did not find anything they just stopped looking because he was so well known on Wall Street. Why The SEC Missed Madoff - Forbes.com

[Trample the Elderly]

Originally Posted by firstdown

What would make someone greedy if they had purchased an investment that was providing great returns on their money? I'm like you and would love to know how he got this over on the SEC for so long. Well after I typied that last sentence and thought I'd try and look it up. Here is a good article on how this got by the SEC. The best thing about the article is a link at the bottom of the page that reads " How To Start A Ponzi Scheme". I think part of the problem is that he was so well known even after the SEC look at his books and did not find anything they just stopped looking because he was so well known on Wall Street. Why The SEC Missed Madoff - Forbes.com

When I say greedy I mean when something appears to good to be true it usually is. This scheme he was running, from what I've heard, was just that. People within his community and with connections we're all to eager to make huge returns on their investments without doing their homework. Some would say that they were greedy. I say yes but, stealing is stealing. And, not everyone has the time or intelligence to study the market and investments, especially old people. They get advice from people who are supposed to know better. That's why he's a scum bag IMO.

[firstdown]

Originally Posted by Trample the Elderly

When I say greedy I mean when something appears to good to be true it usually is. This scheme he was running, from what I've heard, was just that. People within his community and with connections we're all to eager to make huge returns on their investments without doing their homework. Some would say that they were greedy. I say yes but, stealing is stealing. And, not everyone has the time or intelligence to study the market and investments, especially old people. They get advice from people who are supposed to know better. That's why he's a scum bag IMO.

Yea, but he was clever enough to fool the SEC I'm sure he was clever enough to fool the everyday person and from what I read he even fooled people who knew about investing.