Ryan Moats and the DPD

[SBXVII]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

First off, the cop needs to get fired. I'm not sure if it was in that article or another one but he pulled out his gun on the wife when she got out of the car and started for the hospital door. If 4 people get out of a car in tears doesn't it make sense that there may some legitimacy to their story. Hell, even escort the driver into the hospital to confirm the story but to detain him and threaten him with jail and say 'I don't care' when he said that his mother in law is dying is just inexcusable.

As for the racial undertones, I'm certainly not going to dismiss it and would lean towards he wasn't given any benefit of the doubt based on that factor. I just don't want to see Jesse and Rev. Al holding a press conference on the hospital lawn.

Wow, Ok, I'll take the beating. To your answer...yes and no. On a traffic stop, any traffic stop, the first thing the officer is trained to do is "Keep officer safety." In some states it's a rule that the public has to get out of their car during a traffic stop(driver only). If anyone else gets out he/or she should be worried about their safety. A gun will be coming out of the holster.

In Va. most officers want the individuals to stay in their car. Also how would this story look if ....the ladies got out crying, walking toward the hospital, then the driver got out and shot the cop? Then later you found out the driver had kidnapped the ladies and their car. What if the man took his wife and her sister and stopped the car in hopes of having a "suicide by cop" incident. Which is where someone wants to die but would rather not do it themselves.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Wow, Ok, I'll take the beating. To your answer...yes and no. On a traffic stop, any traffic stop, the first thing the officer is trained to do is "Keep officer safety." In some states it's a rule that the public has to get out of their car during a traffic stop(driver only). If anyone else gets out he/or she should be worried about their safety. A gun will be coming out of the holster.

In Va. most officers want the individuals to stay in their car. Also how would this story look if ....the ladies got out crying, walking toward the hospital, then the driver got out and shot the cop? Then later you found out the driver had kidnapped the ladies and their car. What if the man took his wife and her sister and stopped the car in hopes of having a "suicide by cop" incident. Which is where someone wants to die but would rather not do it themselves.

I said it in the off topic area:
The cop was absolutely wrong, once they entered the hospital parking lot by the er (where security cameras abound in reference to your argument) his whole view of the situation should have changed and been seeing if they were in need of assistance. What if a man had come out bleeding, by your argument the cop would have had the right to cuff him. but the actions leading up to his stopping were:
1. he had his hazards on, he slowed at the redlight to check it was clear
2. he did not drive "recklessly" but did go through a red light.
3. he identified his emergency immediately on exiting the vehicle
4. he kept his hands in sight at all times.

It is the police officer's duty to be aware of all the circumstances and to respond correctly and with the correct level of authority. This officer so clearly violated that. He was in a fairly secure environment for a traffic stop and the story was reinforced quickly by hospital and police personnel.
This is the type of conduct that gives police officers a bad rap, and I am glad the police chief did not delay in suspending him, and personally, I hope he is fired. (if i missed my mom or dad's last moments, i would be incensed!)

As to racism? who knows(I think yes), but if this had been a man(white or black) with a pregnant wife, would he have reacted like this?

[Dblock804]

I agree that after about 10 seconds the officer should have caught on. The guy was just not that smart.

[skinsfan69]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

First off, the cop needs to get fired. I'm not sure if it was in that article or another one but he pulled out his gun on the wife when she got out of the car and started for the hospital door. If 4 people get out of a car in tears doesn't it make sense that there may some legitimacy to their story. Hell, even escort the driver into the hospital to confirm the story but to detain him and threaten him with jail and say 'I don't care' when he said that his mother in law is dying is just inexcusable.

As for the racial undertones, I'm certainly not going to dismiss it and would lean towards he wasn't given any benefit of the doubt based on that factor. I just don't want to see Jesse and Rev. Al holding a press conference on the hospital lawn.

Could not have said it any better.

[SBXVII]

Again, again, again. I'm not defending his actions. Simply saying he handled this situation wrong. but for the officers perspective he has to constantly be looking out for his safety.

Now let me jump on your side of the fence a moment. It should have taken only 1-2 minutes to figure out why they were upset and say "ok, I'll walk you up to the room. If your lying to me I'll charge you with an extra charge."
He would have found out they were on the up and up and apologized and moved on.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Again, again, again. I'm not defending his actions. Simply saying he handled this situation wrong. but for the officers perspective he has to constantly be looking out for his safety.

Now let me jump on your side of the fence a moment. It should have taken only 1-2 minutes to figure out why they were upset and say "ok, I'll walk you up to the room. If your lying to me I'll charge you with an extra charge."
He would have found out they were on the up and up and apologized and moved on.

I agree, safety first. No dispute there. Once he had established (which he should have been able to do rather quickly) that there was no danger to him then common sense should have taken over. He made a conscious decision to be an ass and as a result he should face the consequences.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by SBXVII

Again, again, again. I'm not defending his actions. Simply saying he handled this situation wrong. but for the officers perspective he has to constantly be looking out for his safety.

Now let me jump on your side of the fence a moment. It should have taken only 1-2 minutes to figure out why they were upset and say "ok, I'll walk you up to the room. If your lying to me I'll charge you with an extra charge."
He would have found out they were on the up and up and apologized and moved on.

I think the biggest issue for me is that there were hospital personnel that came out to the parking lot to confirm that indeed Moat's mother-in-law was dying. I think at that point, the cop should've stopped everything and let Moat in the hospital.

Prior to that, I'm sure the cop was just reacting to the situation and following what his training and experience had taught him. I don't think any of us (unless we've had the experience, and I haven't) can say how the cop should've reacted initially. But I think common sense should have told him to let Moat go once the nurses from the hospital came to the parking lot to explain the situation.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I think the biggest issue for me is that there were hospital personnel that came out to the parking lot to confirm that indeed Moat's mother-in-law was dying. I think at that point, the cop should've stopped everything and let Moat in the hospital.

Prior to that, I'm sure the cop was just reacting to the situation and following what his training and experience had taught him. I don't think any of us (unless we've had the experience, and I haven't) can say how the cop should've reacted initially. But I think common sense should have told him to let Moat go once the nurses from the hospital came to the parking lot to explain the situation.

I was a Military Policeman for 5 years, 91-96, not the same as a Texas street cop by any means, but I know that if I am in that situation, the factors I pointed to earlier all should have given this man a clue. And in 3yrs on the job, I am also positive he has had his share of traffic stops, dealing with unruly drivers, etc, and the video, after the women leave, shows Moats was behaving well for a grieving man. Sorry, no pass whatsoever from me on this one.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

I was a Military Policeman for 5 years, 91-96, not the same as a Texas street cop by any means, but I know that if I am in that situation, the factors I pointed to earlier all should have given this man a clue. And in 3yrs on the job, I am also positive he has had his share of traffic stops, dealing with unruly drivers, etc, and the video, after the women leave, shows Moats was behaving well for a grieving man. Sorry, no pass whatsoever from me on this one.

I didn't read your previous post but thanks for your input. I know it's easy to criticize (and in this case rightfully so, but it's better to hear it from an experienced perspective.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Ruhskins

I didn't read your previous post but thanks for your input. I know it's easy to criticize (and in this case rightfully so, but it's better to hear it from an experienced perspective.

but then I could barely ever comment

[SBXVII]

To get into an arguement over the proof of insurance is the rediculous part. Not everyone carries everything on them all the time. They were not in an accident so to demand it in the hospital parking lot in a time of crisis is rediculous, I'll agree.

[jamf]

Let's give Moats some credit for handling things as well as anyone could.
If that was me? The officer would've had to arrest me.

[Ijaeger]

Originally Posted by jamf

Let's give Moats some credit for handling things as well as anyone could.
If that was me? The officer would've had to arrest me.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I would've been shot. They said that not once did Moats say he was an NFL player, or try to gain any special treatment or recognition for being an NFL player. I think he handled it about as good as anyone could honestly. I understand the officer was probably just doing what he thought was best, but the Chief of Police said that he thought one of the most embarrassing and disturbing things was that when the officer saw the replay of the tape, he actually didn't think he had done wrong. I mean whatever, he doesn't sound like the kind of person I want to serve and protect me or my community. The one thing that I really thought was unfair were the threats doled out about how if he wanted to he could really screw Moats over. That is an obvious asshole power trip.

[53Fan]

I don't even know why we're discussing this. The stupid SOB should be fired, period. Anyone that stupid shouldn't be on the police force. This isn't an indictement on the whole police force but it doe's make them look bad and they need to take action in these kind of situations. They protect each other way too much. Not all cops are bad but there are way too many who are.

[shack]

I saw the apology issued by the head of the police department. He hit the nail on the head, there's an element of common sense that you can't train for. Some people just don't make good cops. The whole shut your mouth, I can make your life difficult thing is blatant abuse of authority. This guy pulled his gun, on Ryan Moats' wife! I realize police officers risk their lives on a daily basis, but it's a high risk fear-factor job. Firefighter is also a high risk job, soldier in Iraq is a high risk job, crane operator, test pilot, quarterback in the NFL, etc.

I don't think the police officer should be fired, but he should definitely be taken off the streets. Before he kills someone unarmed.