Dumb and Dumber, Vinny and Dan

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by irish

Actually, studies show that the DC area is no more transient than any other large city.

Look at the Caps, they were given up for dead and then they started winning like crazy and now its almost impossible to get a ticket. When the Skins get back to winning and doing it often the ticket will be hot again and other teams fans wont be able to over-run FedEx. Unfortunately I'm not sure this ownership is capable of doing that.

So maybe it is more a reflection of our fan base. GB doesn't always have good teams but you can't get tickets there. Cleveland is much the same.

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by Spence

Dan Snyder is a terrible owner. If you can't see that you're either employed by him or you've got your head buried in the sand. Our head coach seems like a decent man, ditto for the defensive coordinator. I like a lot of the players, not all of them. But Snyder is awful. He's terrible. It's rather stunning that some people still debate this.

I don't debate that people THINK he is awful. I don't even debate that he has done some crazy dumb stuff. But I'd take him as owner over most others becasue I do believe that once he finally figures this out we are going to be dominate. Question is whether he will ever figure it out. It is hard for me to believe that he got to this point in his life and is simply dumb.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Spence

Dan Snyder is a terrible owner. If you can't see that you're either employed by him or you've got your head buried in the sand. Our head coach seems like a decent man, ditto for the defensive coordinator. I like a lot of the players, not all of them. But Snyder is awful. He's terrible. It's rather stunning that some people still debate this.

Preface:
yesterday i was severely frustrated with DS, but he stepped back from the trade, so i will step back from that frustration.

Preface 2:
I respect DC Pro Sports, and Matty and the Warpath partnered up with you guys, so that speaks highly of y'all.

My question:
Why does DC Pro Sports hate Dan Snyder?????

In your above quote you basically say that anyone who doesn't see him as a terrible owner is oblivious or in his employ, but obviously many intelligent people see that some level of maturation has occurred over the years. It seems visceral with you guys and I just don't get it.

Hey if he makes a bonehead move, fine, report it, point it out. But seriously, when you say worst owner, dozens of other figures come to my mind before he does.

[TheSmurfs22]

This organization is going to continue to spin its wheels as long as these two are at the helm. I love the Redskins and I always will, but I am tired of the smoke and mirrors and the big name signings that end up as big name busts. Lets get back to football and lets get back to winning and winning consistently.

[SmootSmack]

I think less people would find him awful if they didn't make so many assumptions. Case in point, people here were talking about how stupid Snyder was that he was about to trade Cooley and Landry to get Cutler. That was never going to happen.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think less people would find him awful if they didn't make so many assumptions. Case in point, people here were talking about how stupid Snyder was that he was about to trade Cooley and Landry to get Cutler. That was never going to happen.

I didn't think or hear about that...if for a second I thought it a possibility it would be hard to be a Skins fan as long as Snyder owned the franchise (cuz the proposition is literally insane).

Anyway...it's not all about the Cutler thing. Snyder appears to have little integrity in general.

[SmootSmack]

I think some people decided long ago to hate him, and always hate him no matter what. Whatever

[FRPLG]

Originally Posted by The Goat

I didn't think or hear about that...if for a second I thought it a possibility it would be hard to be a Skins fan as long as Snyder owned the franchise (cuz the proposition is literally insane).

Anyway...it's not all about the Cutler thing. Snyder appears to have little integrity in general.

You have zero to support that.
I guess it doesn't take integrity to fly an entire organization to Fla for ST's funeral. Or no integrity to setup scholarship funds for his kid. Or no integrity to raise all the money he does in the fight against Breast Cancer. Yeah, he's just an evil guy like all of America's rich white guys.

[Daseal]

Snyder isn’t a poor owner, and Cerrato isn’t nearly as bad as many make him out to be. Snyder started off his tenure in DC very shaky. He made a lot of mistakes, and in my opinion – learned from said mistakes. Besides the initial couple years, tell me what spending sprees Snyder has gone on? In fact, a majority of the free agents we’ve gone after have made significant contributions to the team. These players include: Griffin, Springs, Portis, Washington, Fletcher, Moss, ARE, Kendall, Thomas, Carter, Daniels, etc. Sure, there have been some busts too, such as Lloyd, Taylor, etc. But far and away most of the big name players we’ve gone after in free agency recently have been very important to the success of our team.

Everyone around here cries and asks for an owner like Dan Rooney. Let’s take a look at the Rooney’s. They’re cheap. Very cheap. Expect a lot of very good talent to walk out of your door once their contract is up, lately this hasn’t bitten them too hard. But with as easy as it is to massage the cap, they could have kept many of the high profile players that walked out the door. Secondly, Pittsburgh has gone through many losing streaks, including with Cowher (who by the way, I hope we avoid like the plague. Over rated. Clap clap clap clap) where they stood pat. It’s quite obvious, when looking at the evaluation of Vinny on this site, that Redskins fans don’t understand what patience means.

Now lets move on to Vinny. I believe he regained the position, after Marty, in 2002 (if this is wrong, blame Cpayne!). Lets look at the drafts since then:
• 2002: Not a bad year. Ramsey, Betts, Bauman, Russell, Lott, Royal, Coleman, Grau, Scott, Cartwright. Of this group Betts and Cartwright are both on the team and doing well. Royal is a starter, and Ramsey is a backup. Having four players still in the NFL from that long ago isn’t a terrible draft. Definitely some misses, but could be worse.
• 2003: Only 3 picks. Jacobs, Dockery, Hamdan. Dockery is back with the team as a starting Guard and Hamden is still bouncing around the league.
• 2004: Taylor, Cooley, Wilson, Mollnaro. The late round picks didn’t stand out, but two all pros in rounds 1 and 3. Another good draft.
• 2005: Rogers, Campbell, White, McCune, Newberry, Nemo. Top two picks are good starters in the league, late round picks didn’t make it.
• 2006: McIntosh, Montogomery, Doughty, Golston, Lefotu, Simon. No first round picks and 4 players still on the team and playing well. Another very good draft.
• 2007: Landry, Sartz, Blades, Palmer, Ecker. Not a very good draft. Landry has been great, Blades is a solid backup, but the rest fizzled out. Two solid players, not the worst draft either.
• 2008: Thomas, Davis, Kelly, Rinehart, Hayes, Tryon, Brooks, Moore, Brennan, Jackson, Horton. People want to complain about this draft, and I simply don’t see it. Even if many players don’t make it – where did Vinny go wrong. Thomas was the #1WR on most NFL boards, Kelly was a great pick that I think may be the best WR out of that draft class, and Fred Davis was the best TE in that class. All three play a pass catching position, one that TYPICALLY takes a few seasons to adapt to and become effective. Especially Thomas, he hasn’t played a lot of college games so he needs to keep learning. Chris Horton was borderline DROY and Rob Jackson played. Cold Brennan definitely put some sparks of hope into skins fans after his preseason, and Kareem Moore has contributed at Safety and especially special teams. This draft class was great with how Vinny traded around to get more picks and got a lot of value for his picks. Even the late rounders.

Its hard to tell during the Gibbs years who was actually in charge. It was a muddled mess, just the way Gibbs wanted it. Nothing inside Redskins park would be transparent. Not saying there’s anything wrong with that – but it’s hard to place blame accurately from the outside that way. I feel like we’re still two years away from being able to accurately describe this draft class. Also, where did all the people commending Vinny directly after the draft and early in the season go? There were tons of us then, now because the top three didn’t play much – he’s terrible. Come on.

The whole Cutler deal doesn’t make sense to me. Cutler was an upgrade. Cutler was available. Cutler’s price tag ended up being too high. The Redskins backed out and let another team fall on the sword. What’s the issue. Had the Broncos done what the Redskins did with Campbell, Cutler would have never been traded. Props to the FO for doing a great job with crowd control after that fiasco. On an unrelated rumor, NFL radio said the rumor was there was a 3 way trade, including WAS, CLE, and DEN. With CLE getting Cutler and Quinn ending up in DEN. Not sure what the skins were doing, perhaps picking up more draft picks? Or it could be a totally unfounded rumor – fact is, we’ll probably never know.

[PennSkinsFan]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

Preface:
yesterday i was severely frustrated with DS, but he stepped back from the trade, so i will step back from that frustration.

Preface 2:
I respect DC Pro Sports, and Matty and the Warpath partnered up with you guys, so that speaks highly of y'all.

My question:
Why does DC Pro Sports hate Dan Snyder?????

In your above quote you basically say that anyone who doesn't see him as a terrible owner is oblivious or in his employ, but obviously many intelligent people see that some level of maturation has occurred over the years. It seems visceral with you guys and I just don't get it.

Hey if he makes a bonehead move, fine, report it, point it out. But seriously, when you say worst owner, dozens of other figures come to my mind before he does.

I am not going to speak for Tom, but i can give you my perspective.

I gave Dan Snyder a good 4 to 5 years. I think Matt can attest to that, he used to post at times with us at hR and I used to defend Snyder. That has changed over the last three years because I don't like what I see that he has done to this once proud and historic organization. This has nothing to do with Dan the person. I don't know Dan. I have met several in the organization, but never Dan. I don't know him. BUT, I don't like his ownership style and I never will. This franchise really has no thought out plan for success. There is no plan for drafting to replace players in a few years, to build a healthy franchise. It develops players, leaves them go. Spends vasts amount of money on stars, while critical positions linger. They have not invested good solid drafts picks on the Oline and Dline since 2000. That is horrific. Especially given how critical those position are to success. The franchise is nothing more than a 10-6 to 5-11 franchise, hit the playoffs once every few years, but that is about it. Why? Because there is no direction. When your owner believe Vinny Cerrato is the guy, I already question it.

Listen, we all have differing opinions. I am one of those kind of guys, porbably because of my professional life and the success we have had at DCPSR, I am simply one of those guys that always believe in, what have you done lately. This farnchise has been mediocre since Snyder bought it and the lack of planning and decisions like Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, and TJ Duckett are just awful, simply awful. I guess growing up in the 80s and watching how Jack Kente Cooke developed this franchise, with a professional staff, spoiled me. Watching teams like Pittsburgh and New England win year in and year out because they draft with purpose makes me wish. Given the fact that the last two years have seen more and more empty seats at FEDEX, I would say that Snyder's ownership is taking an effect, and not a good one. Just my opinion.

[GTripp0012]

Originally Posted by Daseal

The whole Cutler deal doesn’t make sense to me. Cutler was an upgrade. Cutler was available. Cutler’s price tag ended up being too high. The Redskins backed out and let another team fall on the sword. What’s the issue. Had the Broncos done what the Redskins did with Campbell, Cutler would have never been traded. Props to the FO for doing a great job with crowd control after that fiasco. On an unrelated rumor, NFL radio said the rumor was there was a 3 way trade, including WAS, CLE, and DEN. With CLE getting Cutler and Quinn ending up in DEN. Not sure what the skins were doing, perhaps picking up more draft picks? Or it could be a totally unfounded rumor – fact is, we’ll probably never know.

This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

[70Chip]

Originally Posted by SmootSmack

I think some people decided long ago to hate him, and always hate him no matter what. Whatever

Oh come on now. Reasonable people can disagree and a reasonable person could have come to the conclusion over time that he is bad for the Redskins . There have been many "last straws" over the years. This fiasco of publicly humiliating Campbell is only the latest. But until Obama starts firing NFL owners we're stuck with him.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by PennSkinsFan

I am not going to speak for Tom, but i can give you my perspective.

I gave Dan Snyder a good 4 to 5 years. I think Matt can attest to that, he used to post at times with us at hR and I used to defend Snyder. That has changed over the last three years because I don't like what I see that he has done to this once proud and historic organization. This has nothing to do with Dan the person. I don't know Dan. I have met several in the organization, but never Dan. I don't know him. BUT, I don't like his ownership style and I never will. This franchise really has no thought out plan for success. There is no plan for drafting to replace players in a few years, to build a healthy franchise. It develops players, leaves them go. Spends vasts amount of money on stars, while critical positions linger. They have not invested good solid drafts picks on the Oline and Dline since 2000. That is horrific. Especially given how critical those position are to success. The franchise is nothing more than a 10-6 to 5-11 franchise, hit the playoffs once every few years, but that is about it. Why? Because there is no direction. When your owner believe Vinny Cerrato is the guy, I already question it.

Listen, we all have differing opinions. I am one of those kind of guys, porbably because of my professional life and the success we have had at DCPSR, I am simply one of those guys that always believe in, what have you done lately. This farnchise has been mediocre since Snyder bought it and the lack of planning and decisions like Jason Taylor, Brandon Lloyd, and TJ Duckett are just awful, simply awful. I guess growing up in the 80s and watching how Jack Kente Cooke developed this franchise, with a professional staff, spoiled me. Watching teams like Pittsburgh and New England win year in and year out because they draft with purpose makes me wish. Given the fact that the last two years have seen more and more empty seats at FEDEX, I would say that Snyder's ownership is taking an effect, and not a good one. Just my opinion.

Thanks for the thoughts, certainly well expressed. My next question is do you see a growth and maturation in Snyder (I certainly think I do). If so, does that give you any pause in your thoughts, or do you think it is too small to measure?

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by GTripp0012

This problem is that, reportedly, it went past a passing interest. We were prepared to throw multiple first round picks at Jay Cutler. Which is unquestionably insane, given our current QB situation.

We will never know if Snyder pulled the offer, or simply was outbid, but the fact that we were even there is proof of a shallow understanding of why we lost 8 games last year. It's telling Jason Campbell that he is being held responsible for failures he wasn't responsible for. It's proof that we don't see a problem with buying high and selling low. It's proof of so many structural problems in management that we can't just sweep it under the rug and pretend it didn't happen.

The same deal happened last year with Chad Johnson. We ONLY seem to chase players that are overvalued by the market. That's one thing if you are a team that generally avoids trades and free agency, but for this team, it's a big problem. Regardless of how you or I view Snyder as an owner, you aren't taking this seriously enough in your evaluation of the situation.

We very nearly reduced ourselves to a single first day draft pick in the next two years. And for what? Two good-but-overhyped players in Taylor and Cutler. You can't claim patience as a defense. We're too impulsive.

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

[WaldSkins]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

One of the ESPN reporters was talking in depth on the trade to Chicago, and I found it interesting that he said that Chicago had thought they were out of the mix for about 3 hours, no texts, calls etc. Then Denver called them when the other team (they did not say us, and in fact made it sound like it might have been Cleveland) did not offer Denver what they wanted. If that is right then we pulled out on our own, and again I think it is a sign Danny at least saw some boundary he would not go over. Sorry no link or reference, I saw it right when I got home, and was kinda spacing with the TV on.

I read that our offer was part of a three team deal that included Cleveland because Denver did not want Campbell. Apparently Denver was only interested in Orton and Quinn in return. When Cleveland backed out, there went Cutler to Da Bears.