Moral based question:

djnemo65 · 04-06-2009, 06:46 AM

Did you ask the professor?

dmek25 · 04-06-2009, 07:58 AM

dont cheat. if your not sure, ask.

MTK · 04-06-2009, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by saden1

LOL...We faced a similar predicament in our Calculus II during our finals and let me tell you the result for one particular cheater (yes, putting it on your calculator is cheating) was not pretty. The professor was able to somehow tell that he was cheating and came to his seat, asked him for his calculator, checked to see if there were formulas typed into it, took the exam papers from him and told him he's free to go home. The professor then proceeded to tell the entire class that if anyone else has formulas on their calculator they'll suffer the same fate and will be brought up for violating the school's code of conduct.

The moral of the story is don't cheat, it's not worth it.

p.s. We were told we can have a single cheat-sheet and that we may not store formulas into our calculators for the final exam.

That's the way my profs always did it too with the cheat sheet. Anything you could fit on one piece of paper was fair game.

Schneed10 · 04-06-2009, 08:29 AM

Daseal, you have to check your school's honor policy. At Richmond, we had a strict one and anyone found guilty of cheating was automatically expelled for good, with readmittance 100% not an option. If your school is like mine, I wouldn't eff around.

The kids on the honor council sit in classes with you, you never know if one of them is sitting near you.

As to whether this is cheating, it's a gray area. But depending on the honor policy it may not be worth it.

gibbsisgod · 04-06-2009, 08:29 AM

Who is to say that your prof makes everybody delete any saved info before the test starts. If you were not prepared this would really suck.

SmootSmack · 04-06-2009, 08:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mattyk72

That's the way my profs always did it too with the cheat sheet. Anything you could fit on one piece of paper was fair game.

Same here.

mredskins · 04-06-2009, 08:34 AM

Cheating never pays because in the end if you get caught or not you lose. I hated hated English class when growing up espically spelling. I think I cheated on most spelling test and now today I suffer becasue I am the worst speller I know.

Luckly I took a likening to math. I would say if you cheat you are only screwing yourself. It is true in the "real world" Excel or my HP 10BII ( I know it is crappy but gets the job done plus I use Ecel 99% of the time) does the work of actual claculating the formulas but with out knowing the methodology behind those formauls Excel and my HP would be useless.

Basically don't cheat yourself and just learn the crap.

FRPLG · 04-06-2009, 08:35 AM

I would just ask the professor. If he ahsn't said you can't and said you can use your calculator then it isn't really cheating to me. But I'd still make sure based on the "If it's too good to be true" philosophy.

CRedskinsRule · 04-06-2009, 08:45 AM

Also, if you have it, check the rules they handed out at the beginning of the semester. When I went, everything was laid out fairly clearly in those. Like most have said, if you are not sure ask first and that way you don't have to worry.

Hog1 · 04-06-2009, 08:48 AM

Ask the Prof. Your conscience wil be clear. All will be well, and the teach will respect for it! And if that doesn't work for you, see if you can buy a copy of the exam

BDBohnzie · 04-06-2009, 10:16 AM

Morally, I'd clear it up with the professor. Ask the professor to clarify his response by asking if calculators are to be cleared, and would you be able to program in any formulas you would need to use. That way you are in the clear and it can't be used against you...

However, what I always laugh at (not that Daseal would do this) was those students who programmed stuff into their calculators/cheat sheets and didn't know how to use the information. They just assumed that having the formulas, they would be able to figure out when to use them. I had several friends fail out of statistics and calculus because they didn't study and figured they could "cheat" their way to an A with the stuff programmed into the calculators, and then used the wrong formulas and equations.

724Skinsfan · 04-06-2009, 11:06 AM

For it not to be considered wrong everybody in the class would need to have the formulas stored in their calculator. Anybody that has them stored now has a competitive advantage over someone that doesn't. Most teachers are smart enough to realize this. I'll bet the professor didn't consider or simply forget to include the fact that you can't store the formulas. Maybe, his tests are geared so that the formulas are already provided. Who knows?

Follow your conscience, though. Like gibbsisgod (do we still call him giggity or was that somebody else?) said: the professor may have everyone clear their memory before the test starts.

firstdown · 04-06-2009, 11:25 AM

If you think its cheating then its probably is cheating. Ask and see what the professor say's but that might not be popular with the class as then they would all know its cheating and would loose that arguement if caught.

Daseal · 04-06-2009, 11:41 AM

This discussion had gone the wrong way. People are breathing me a bit too far into it. As I've said multiple times, I'm personally not willing to take any chance of an honor code violation -- simply because the reward isn't worth the risk. Personally, I feel like if the professor doesn't say something isn't allowed, then that means it is allowed. But I was curious how people felt about something like this.

724Skinsfan -- every student is allowed to use a calculator. Thus everyone has access to plugging formulas into their calculators if they so choose. As BDBohnzie said, you can have all the formulas in the world, but practice is what makes them happen. I think I have a good idea of the basic thoughts of the community. Seems somewhere around 60/40 for cheating/not cheating. Pretty close. Interesting.

Trample the Elderly · 04-06-2009, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daseal

Trample: First of all, take a quick moment and get the sand out of your vagina. Now that we've taken care of that, please read my post, especially this part: I doubt I'll put the formulas in just to avoid any chance of getting in trouble. But what are the thoughts of the folks here about it?.

These are the types of decisions that truly show what ethics are, there's an argument to each side. I think if we took this example out of the realm of education and into the realm of business, folks would be telling me to use the tools to my advantage. I'm going to just take the test normally (jotting down a million formulas the second the test starts), but personally wouldn't consider this action cheating. If he said no using memory/applications/editors/etc then it's absolutely cheating.

He He He.

I'm so very pleased that I could upset you so much. Why don't you stop being a vagina and stop beating around the bush.

Why come on here and ask silly rhetorical questions? Well I could eh. . . . but I doubt eh . . . . Do you think eh . . . .

I doubt I'll do it because I don't want to get caught. That speaks volumes. It's not about right or wrong, you just don't want to take the risk.

The answer is in black and white. It isn't a formula or some pie in the sky college debate. Cheating is what ever the professor and the college says it is. That's all there is to it.

Since when has there been ethics in Business? There is only one rule in the business world and that's to make money. That's why it's called business.

04-06-2009, 06:46 AM	#16
djnemo65 Playmaker Join Date: May 2004 Posts: 2,836	Re: Moral based question: Did you ask the professor?

04-06-2009, 07:58 AM	#17
dmek25 MVP Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: lancaster,pa Age: 63 Posts: 10,672	Re: Moral based question: dont cheat. if your not sure, ask. __________________ "It's better to be quiet and thought a fool than to open ones mouth and remove all doubt." courtesy of 53fan

04-06-2009, 08:29 AM	#19
Schneed10 A Dude Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Newtown Square, PA Age: 46 Posts: 12,458	Re: Moral based question: Daseal, you have to check your school's honor policy. At Richmond, we had a strict one and anyone found guilty of cheating was automatically expelled for good, with readmittance 100% not an option. If your school is like mine, I wouldn't eff around. The kids on the honor council sit in classes with you, you never know if one of them is sitting near you. As to whether this is cheating, it's a gray area. But depending on the honor policy it may not be worth it. __________________ God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.

04-06-2009, 08:29 AM	#20
gibbsisgod Playmaker Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: 129 W 81st street Age: 46 Posts: 3,503	Re: Moral based question: Who is to say that your prof makes everybody delete any saved info before the test starts. If you were not prepared this would really suck.

04-06-2009, 08:34 AM	#22
mredskins Gamebreaker Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 13,007	Re: Moral based question: Cheating never pays because in the end if you get caught or not you lose. I hated hated English class when growing up espically spelling. I think I cheated on most spelling test and now today I suffer becasue I am the worst speller I know. Luckly I took a likening to math. I would say if you cheat you are only screwing yourself. It is true in the "real world" Excel or my HP 10BII ( I know it is crappy but gets the job done plus I use Ecel 99% of the time) does the work of actual claculating the formulas but with out knowing the methodology behind those formauls Excel and my HP would be useless. Basically don't cheat yourself and just learn the crap. __________________ When life gives you paper jams, turn them into paper footballs!

04-06-2009, 08:35 AM	#23
FRPLG MVP Join Date: May 2004 Age: 46 Posts: 10,164	Re: Moral based question: I would just ask the professor. If he ahsn't said you can't and said you can use your calculator then it isn't really cheating to me. But I'd still make sure based on the "If it's too good to be true" philosophy.

04-06-2009, 08:45 AM	#24
CRedskinsRule Living Legend Join Date: Aug 2008 Age: 58 Posts: 21,698	Re: Moral based question: Also, if you have it, check the rules they handed out at the beginning of the semester. When I went, everything was laid out fairly clearly in those. Like most have said, if you are not sure ask first and that way you don't have to worry.

04-06-2009, 08:48 AM	#25
Hog1 Quietly Dominating the East Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Naples, Florida Posts: 10,675	Re: Moral based question: Ask the Prof. Your conscience wil be clear. All will be well, and the teach will respect for it! And if that doesn't work for you, see if you can buy a copy of the exam __________________ Goodbye Sean..........Vaya Con Dios thankyou Joe....... *“God made certain people to play football. He was one of them.” – Joe Gibbs*

04-06-2009, 10:16 AM	#26
BDBohnzie Playmaker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Frederick, MD Age: 46 Posts: 4,628	Re: Moral based question: Morally, I'd clear it up with the professor. Ask the professor to clarify his response by asking if calculators are to be cleared, and would you be able to program in any formulas you would need to use. That way you are in the clear and it can't be used against you... However, what I always laugh at (not that Daseal would do this) was those students who programmed stuff into their calculators/cheat sheets and didn't know how to use the information. They just assumed that having the formulas, they would be able to figure out when to use them. I had several friends fail out of statistics and calculus because they didn't study and figured they could "cheat" their way to an A with the stuff programmed into the calculators, and then used the wrong formulas and equations. __________________ Bad Things man, I mean bad things... “WE TOOK HIM IN THE SIXTH ROUND SO WE'RE NOT SMART EITHER.” - Shanny on what the Skins saw in Alfred Morris

04-06-2009, 11:06 AM	#27
724Skinsfan Playmaker Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Roanoke, VA Posts: 3,508	Re: Moral based question: For it not to be considered wrong everybody in the class would need to have the formulas stored in their calculator. Anybody that has them stored now has a competitive advantage over someone that doesn't. Most teachers are smart enough to realize this. I'll bet the professor didn't consider or simply forget to include the fact that you can't store the formulas. Maybe, his tests are geared so that the formulas are already provided. Who knows? Follow your conscience, though. Like gibbsisgod (do we still call him giggity or was that somebody else?) said: the professor may have everyone clear their memory before the test starts. __________________ "I hope I'm getting better. I hope you haven't seen my best." - Jim Zorn

04-06-2009, 11:25 AM	#28
firstdown Living Legend Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: chesapeake, va Age: 61 Posts: 15,817	Re: Moral based question: If you think its cheating then its probably is cheating. Ask and see what the professor say's but that might not be popular with the class as then they would all know its cheating and would loose that arguement if caught.

04-06-2009, 11:41 AM	#29
Daseal Puppy Kicker Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arlington, Virginia Age: 42 Posts: 8,341	Re: Moral based question: This discussion had gone the wrong way. People are breathing me a bit too far into it. As I've said multiple times, I'm personally not willing to take any chance of an honor code violation -- simply because the reward isn't worth the risk. Personally, I feel like if the professor doesn't say something isn't allowed, then that means it is allowed. But I was curious how people felt about something like this. 724Skinsfan -- every student is allowed to use a calculator. Thus everyone has access to plugging formulas into their calculators if they so choose. As BDBohnzie said, you can have all the formulas in the world, but practice is what makes them happen. I think I have a good idea of the basic thoughts of the community. Seems somewhere around 60/40 for cheating/not cheating. Pretty close. Interesting. __________________ Best. Player. Available.

Moral based question:

Parking Lot