The image of Redskins fans?

[sportscurmudgeon]

djnemo65:

Sorry, but if you are going to assess the SPORTS fans in a city (note the use of the plural there) you have to look at how they support all the SPORTS available to them (note the use of the plural there).

When you do that, Washington DC is a BAD SPORTS TOWN. It is not as bad as Miami and not as bad as Atlanta, but that about lists all the major SPORTS cities in the US that are historically and demonstrably worse. Maybe New Orleans is worse, but NO has fewer sports for the fans there to ignore.

Washington lost TWO baseball teams. The one they have now - - in a brand new $612M stadium - - will not draw flies this year. In the stadium's inaugural year of 2008, you could walk up and get box seat tix to any game after July 4th. I know because I did that a couple of times.

Unless the Wizards of the Caps are in the playoffs, they play to capacities of 60-75%. For bad opponents, they play to capacities of 50%. That is what the WNBA does and whenever you are comparing a major sport's fan support to the WNBA, that is bad news. When those teams are in the playoffs - or in the hunt - they play to 90+% capacities. That is called "bandwagon fandom" or "fairweather fans" whichever you prefer.

When U-MD is hot in basketball, you can only get tix from scalpers. For the last 3 years you could get them in a thousand places and often at a discount to face value.

Once the "Ralph Friedgen Is A Football God" image wore thin, I could get a MD football ticket on game day for any oppoenent any time I wanted it.

AND - hold your breath - the Redskins do NOT sell out Fed Ex every week. In fact, I do not believe that Fed Ex has EVER been sold out for a football game. Those "premium seats" that sit empty every game (The glaring yellow ones you see on TV) are not sold to people who had something more important to do on game day; they were never sold in the first place. The NFL allows teams to count a sellout if they sell all the "regular tix" but not the "premium seats"; that's why the Redskins are on home TV all the time; but they DO NOT sell out every game. [And let's not forget how many Washington ticket holders are willing to sell their tix to fans of opposing teams. That happens to a much lesser extent in good SPORTS cities.)

AND the Redskins are the ONLY sports attraction in DC that can count on big crowds even if the team has not played well for several consecutive years. For any other franchise/college team, that would mean "no one in the seats and crickets for crowd noise". DC is indeed a bad SPORTS town.

[GMScud]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

djnemo65:

Sorry, but if you are going to assess the SPORTS fans in a city (note the use of the plural there) you have to look at how they support all the SPORTS available to them (note the use of the plural there).

When you do that, Washington DC is a BAD SPORTS TOWN. It is not as bad as Miami and not as bad as Atlanta, but that about lists all the major SPORTS cities in the US that are historically and demonstrably worse. Maybe New Orleans is worse, but NO has fewer sports for the fans there to ignore.

Washington lost TWO baseball teams. The one they have now - - in a brand new $612M stadium - - will not draw flies this year. In the stadium's inaugural year of 2008, you could walk up and get box seat tix to any game after July 4th. I know because I did that a couple of times.

Unless the Wizards of the Caps are in the playoffs, they play to capacities of 60-75%. For bad opponents, they play to capacities of 50%. That is what the WNBA does and whenever you are comparing a major sport's fan support to the WNBA, that is bad news. When those teams are in the playoffs - or in the hunt - they play to 90+% capacities. That is called "bandwagon fandom" or "fairweather fans" whichever you prefer.

When U-MD is hot in basketball, you can only get tix from scalpers. For the last 3 years you could get them in a thousand places and often at a discount to face value.

Once the "Ralph Friedgen Is A Football God" image wore thin, I could get a MD football ticket on game day for any oppoenent any time I wanted it.

AND - hold your breath - the Redskins do NOT sell out Fed Ex every week. In fact, I do not believe that Fed Ex has EVER been sold out for a football game. Those "premium seats" that sit empty every game (The glaring yellow ones you see on TV) are not sold to people who had something more important to do on game day; they were never sold in the first place. The NFL allows teams to count a sellout if they sell all the "regular tix" but not the "premium seats"; that's why the Redskins are on home TV all the time; but they DO NOT sell out every game. [And let's not forget how many Washington ticket holders are willing to sell their tix to fans of opposing teams. That happens to a much lesser extent in good SPORTS cities.)

AND the Redskins are the ONLY sports attraction in DC that can count on big crowds even if the team has not played well for several consecutive years. For any other franchise/college team, that would mean "no one in the seats and crickets for crowd noise". DC is indeed a bad SPORTS town.

Sportscurmudgeon:

You make good points. However, DC is in a unique spot. How many other teams across the country have all 4 major sports, a large amount of college/universities with D-1 sports, and exist in such an area as population-dense as the mid-atlantic/northeastern US? Philly, NY, and Baltimore are major metropolitan areas within 200 or so miles of DC, and if you add up teams in the 4 major sports, there are 14 other franchises separate from those in DC.

Also, I'd like to see the stats on other teams in the NHL, NBA, and MLB that sell a high % of seats during pitiful stretches of futility.

As far as the college sports, I'm a Gator and can attest to the loyalty and sellouts for them, but Gainesville, FL is a fart in the wind compared to the DC metro area. There's nothing to do down there except watch the Gators.
I have and always will think Maryland fans are soft.

[Ruhskins]

Originally Posted by GMScud

Sportscurmudgeon:

You make good points. However, DC is in a unique spot. How many other teams across the country have all 4 major sports, a large amount of college/universities with D-1 sports, and exist in such an area as population-dense as the mid-atlantic/northeastern US? Philly, NY, and Baltimore are major metropolitan areas within 200 or so miles of DC, and if you add up teams in the 4 major sports, there are 14 other franchises separate from those in DC.

Also, I'd like to see the stats on other teams in the NHL, NBA, and MLB that sell a high % of seats during pitiful stretches of futility.

As far as the college sports, I'm a Gator and can attest to the loyalty and sellouts for them, but Gainesville, FL is a fart in the wind compared to the DC metro area. There's nothing to do down there except watch the Gators.
I have and always will think Maryland fans are soft.

[djnemo65]

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

djnemo65:

Sorry, but if you are going to assess the SPORTS fans in a city (note the use of the plural there) you have to look at how they support all the SPORTS available to them (note the use of the plural there).

When you do that, Washington DC is a BAD SPORTS TOWN. It is not as bad as Miami and not as bad as Atlanta, but that about lists all the major SPORTS cities in the US that are historically and demonstrably worse. Maybe New Orleans is worse, but NO has fewer sports for the fans there to ignore.

Washington lost TWO baseball teams. The one they have now - - in a brand new $612M stadium - - will not draw flies this year. In the stadium's inaugural year of 2008, you could walk up and get box seat tix to any game after July 4th. I know because I did that a couple of times.

Unless the Wizards of the Caps are in the playoffs, they play to capacities of 60-75%. For bad opponents, they play to capacities of 50%. That is what the WNBA does and whenever you are comparing a major sport's fan support to the WNBA, that is bad news. When those teams are in the playoffs - or in the hunt - they play to 90+% capacities. That is called "bandwagon fandom" or "fairweather fans" whichever you prefer.

When U-MD is hot in basketball, you can only get tix from scalpers. For the last 3 years you could get them in a thousand places and often at a discount to face value.

Once the "Ralph Friedgen Is A Football God" image wore thin, I could get a MD football ticket on game day for any oppoenent any time I wanted it.

AND - hold your breath - the Redskins do NOT sell out Fed Ex every week. In fact, I do not believe that Fed Ex has EVER been sold out for a football game. Those "premium seats" that sit empty every game (The glaring yellow ones you see on TV) are not sold to people who had something more important to do on game day; they were never sold in the first place. The NFL allows teams to count a sellout if they sell all the "regular tix" but not the "premium seats"; that's why the Redskins are on home TV all the time; but they DO NOT sell out every game. [And let's not forget how many Washington ticket holders are willing to sell their tix to fans of opposing teams. That happens to a much lesser extent in good SPORTS cities.)

AND the Redskins are the ONLY sports attraction in DC that can count on big crowds even if the team has not played well for several consecutive years. For any other franchise/college team, that would mean "no one in the seats and crickets for crowd noise". DC is indeed a bad SPORTS town.

SC, while I don't disagree with what you are saying, I do disagree with the conclusion you draw. Rather than suggesting that DC is a bad sports town, your arguments instead provide support for the general consensus of this thread: that DC is an average sports town, the Redskins notwithstanding.

Sure, the still brand new and still worst in the league baseball team isn't selling out their new stadium. So what? New York is the only town in the country that doesn't lose attendance when the team struggles. It also happens to be the biggest town in America, with over 100 years of baseball tradition. Other teams? Forget about it. Even the Redsox suffered slumping attendance in the 90's. So relatively speaking, that makes DC average. Bad would be Tampa Bay, for instance, who decided not to show up for their team's World Series run.

Regarding the NBA, you again impose a ridiculous standard that no other town except New York, with the greatest professional basketball fans in the world, would meet. For instance, the Bulls, Celtics, and 76ers, three teams with championship-rich traditions, have suffered serious attendance drops during recent bad times, not unlike the Wizards. In general, the NBA has a hard enough time these days selling tickets to good teams. So DC scores average.

And the capitals? Come on, nobody cares about hockey in America. I think DC fans at least deserve credit for knowing to show up when the team is good. That is more than can be said for a lot of other putative hockey towns in the US.

And when you conclude by questioning the town's support for the Skins I have to wonder how you reconcile this with your previous argument in this thread:

Originally Posted by sportscurmudgeon

Skins' fans also love to think that their team is "hated" by the media and by the rest of the NFL. That is simply not the case. Networks love the Skins because they are one of the teams that reliably draw good ratings on TV. Columnists love the Skins because there is always some kind of "drama" going on there to write about. Other owners love the Skins because the Skins' financial success increases the value of all league franchises.

Where do you think that money and attention comes from? Packers fans? Say what you want about the rich attorneys from New York with season tickets who don't show up for the game if it's raining, card-carrying Skins fans still bleed burgundy and gold, buy jerseys, and go to games.

As a Penn State guy I will concede Maryland sucks though.