Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

[The Goat]

Also found it curious from the article Malcolm Kelly still can't do anything. He's not been able to do all the off-season work w/ JC and develop that chemistry and timing. I would say Kelly isn't likely to contribute anything this year...he just hasn't been able to develop at all since we drafted him. And it's unsettling how there's really nothing said about when he's expected to be fully healthy...his knee sounds like it's FUBAR.

...Vinny is a lousy evaluator IMHO.

[Paintrain]

Originally Posted by The Goat

Also found it curious from the article Malcolm Kelly still can't do anything. He's not been able to do all the off-season work w/ JC and develop that chemistry and timing. I would say Kelly isn't likely to contribute anything this year...he just hasn't been able to develop at all since we drafted him. And it's unsettling how there's really nothing said about when he's expected to be fully healthy...his knee sounds like it's FUBAR.

...Vinny is a lousy evaluator IMHO.

Kelly said last week that he is rehabbing from the most recent (January) procedure on the knee and all along the target date was the June mini camp. He can run a straight line but they don't want him cutting right now. Their entire focus is on getting the muscles around the knee stronger because when he hurt it in college he rehabbed but didn't continue to strengthen (maintenance basically) which led to it giving him problems again. He is working the plan to get ready for the season, not a May minicamp. As for 'talent' he was universally considered ready to make an impact based on early showings in camp before his injury popped up.

Originally Posted by Superman13732

Help me break down our line real quick...

Samuels (RT) Dockery (LG) Rabach (C) Thomas (RG) Williams (RT)

If samuels gets hurt and Williams doesn't pan out, we are stuck with an average center a very old right gaurd and the newly bills released LG dockery.

To assume that Williams was brought in as the presumptive starter would be a false premise. He's in on a one year vet min deal. That screams depth/camp body. The depth chart at RT is Heyer, Jansen, Williams-in that order. If Williams really makes huge strides in the next 12 weeks and can enter camp in great shape he might be a factor but there's about a 25% chance of that actually happening.

As for the rest of the line, if any team loses their pro-bowl LT they are pretty much screwed. Nobody has had a negative view on the Dockery signing and there's hope/an expectation internally that Rinehart will be able to step up to fill in if Thomas goes down. Rabach is what he is (average) but he's in the last year of his deal so his replacement is on the way (if not on the roster).

The gloom and doom around here in April(!) is pretty amazing.

[freddyg12]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Kelly said last week that he is rehabbing from the most recent (January) procedure on the knee and all along the target date was the June mini camp. He can run a straight line but they don't want him cutting right now. Their entire focus is on getting the muscles around the knee stronger because when he hurt it in college he rehabbed but didn't continue to strengthen (maintenance basically) which led to it giving him problems again. He is working the plan to get ready for the season, not a May minicamp. As for 'talent' he was universally considered ready to make an impact based on early showings in camp before his injury popped up.

To assume that Williams was brought in as the presumptive starter would be a false premise. He's in on a one year vet min deal. That screams depth/camp body. The depth chart at RT is Heyer, Jansen, Williams-in that order. If Williams really makes huge strides in the next 12 weeks and can enter camp in great shape he might be a factor but there's about a 25% chance of that actually happening.

As for the rest of the line, if any team loses their pro-bowl LT they are pretty much screwed. Nobody has had a negative view on the Dockery signing and there's hope/an expectation internally that Rinehart will be able to step up to fill in if Thomas goes down. Rabach is what he is (average) but he's in the last year of his deal so his replacement is on the way (if not on the roster).

The gloom and doom around here in April(!) is pretty amazing.

It seems to me to be an evolution of the fan base & a growing resentment towards the way the team operates. I know there are some mods on this site that have a better idea, or could crunch some comparisons of past April/post draft threads, but it seems to me that most post draft threads in the past were positive until maybe last year.

I remember so much hope on this site for guys like Molinaro, McCune & Broughton. I don't see that as much now for Glenn, Henson, Mitchell et al.

[T.O.Killa]

Originally Posted by freddyg12

It seems to me to be an evolution of the fan base & a growing resentment towards the way the team operates. I know there are some mods on this site that have a better idea, or could crunch some comparisons of past April/post draft threads, but it seems to me that most post draft threads in the past were positive until maybe last year.

I remember so much hope on this site for guys like Molinaro, McCune & Broughton. I don't see that as much now for Glenn, Henson, Mitchell et al.

Well those guys suck. Guys Like Golston, Montgomery, Horton, and Moore, have been great picks and Vinny got a lot of shit for picking them. Don't forget Doughty and Blades. Biggest problem with our draft is we give to many picks away, not the way Vinny picks.

[nyredskinsfan]

"I know I’m built for this game, no matter what. I can go out and do something else, but I’m made to hit people. So that’s what I’m going to do. I’m going to hit them hard and hit them often.”

I'm going to remember this quote.

[Superman13732]

[QUOTE=Paintrain;551871]Kelly said last week that he is rehabbing from the most recent (January) procedure on the knee and all along the target date was the June mini camp. He can run a straight line but they don't want him cutting right now. Their entire focus is on getting the muscles around the knee stronger because when he hurt it in college he rehabbed but didn't continue to strengthen (maintenance basically) which led to it giving him problems again. He is working the plan to get ready for the season, not a May minicamp. As for 'talent' he was universally considered ready to make an impact based on early showings in camp before his injury popped up.

Kelly has a degenerative knee condition. According to one doctor who looked at him last year he has the knees of an 80 year old man. The injury he suffered in college was a result of that condition. Sad thing is this was popular knowledge before we drafted him.

As for the O-line, you made a valid point about Williams being third string at best, i was reaching for optimism (admittingly a little too far). The left side of our line is solid if Dockery can revert to his pre-Bills Redskins days. But that still leaves us with the right side of the line... Jansen? does anyone here honestly have faith in him? Same goes for Thomas. They are old and frail, how much does that say for Their backups? They can't beat out these frail old men for the starting jobs?

How do we redeem this line? One name. Levi Jones. Not an outstanding player, but far better than whatever we have though. I do see a major problem in this though. No. 1 he has not been released yet, and if the Bengals O-line was as bad as everyone says it was last year, how are they going to release him, and No. 2, if they do in fact release him, what does that say about HIM, he can't keep a job on a lousy team? (and dont give me the "well they drafted Smith with the 6th pick, they don't need Jones anymore" if he is so good, and the bengals line is so bad, they can MOVE HIM AROUND). With that said, where does that leave us? Say goodbye to some more draft picks from next years draft. We had a chance to get some value with the fifth round, Robinson and.... M-something, they were both great value in the fifth round. I'm just not seeing the wisdom here. Standard Dan and Vinny logic.

[cobracai1]

[quote=Superman13732;552150]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Kelly said last week that he is rehabbing from the most recent (January) procedure on the knee and all along the target date was the June mini camp. He can run a straight line but they don't want him cutting right now. Their entire focus is on getting the muscles around the knee stronger because when he hurt it in college he rehabbed but didn't continue to strengthen (maintenance basically) which led to it giving him problems again. He is working the plan to get ready for the season, not a May minicamp. As for 'talent' he was universally considered ready to make an impact based on early showings in camp before his injury popped up.

Kelly has a degenerative knee condition. According to one doctor who looked at him last year he has the knees of an 80 year old man. The injury he suffered in college was a result of that condition. Sad thing is this was popular knowledge before we drafted him.

As for the O-line, you made a valid point about Williams being third string at best, i was reaching for optimism (admittingly a little too far). The left side of our line is solid if Dockery can revert to his pre-Bills Redskins days. But that still leaves us with the right side of the line... Jansen? does anyone here honestly have faith in him? Same goes for Thomas. They are old and frail, how much does that say for Their backups? They can't beat out these frail old men for the starting jobs?

How do we redeem this line? One name. Levi Jones. Not an outstanding player, but far better than whatever we have though. I do see a major problem in this though. No. 1 he has not been released yet, and if the Bengals O-line was as bad as everyone says it was last year, how are they going to release him, and No. 2, if they do in fact release him, what does that say about HIM, he can't keep a job on a lousy team? (and dont give me the "well they drafted Smith with the 6th pick, they don't need Jones anymore" if he is so good, and the bengals line is so bad, they can MOVE HIM AROUND). With that said, where does that leave us? Say goodbye to some more draft picks from next years draft. We had a chance to get some value with the fifth round, Robinson and.... M-something, they were both great value in the fifth round. I'm just not seeing the wisdom here. Standard Dan and Vinny logic.

I and others have given wisdom on this in numerous threads. If these guys are not as good as the guys we already have then what is the purpose of getting them? Don't forget, we dont have a shortage of Olinemen just a shortage of quality (can be debated). If our coaches (Buges included) did not see anyone that he would want over Clark, Rinehart, Heyer, or even Williams then there is no point in drafting them. I'm more excited about the undrafted C from MD Williams. My friends who work for CSN covering the Terps swear that this guy will not disappoint. I just don't know what more you're looking for.

[Lotus]

We need a new CB because Williams mistook Carlos Rogers for his sandwich and swallowed Rogers whole today.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We need a new CB because Williams mistook Carlos Rogers for his sandwich and swallowed Rogers whole today.

Will you be in the house all week?

[Superman13732]

[quote=cobracai1;552151]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

I and others have given wisdom on this in numerous threads. If these guys are not as good as the guys we already have then what is the purpose of getting them? Don't forget, we dont have a shortage of Olinemen just a shortage of quality (can be debated). If our coaches (Buges included) did not see anyone that he would want over Clark, Rinehart, Heyer, or even Williams then there is no point in drafting them. I'm more excited about the undrafted C from MD Williams. My friends who work for CSN covering the Terps swear that this guy will not disappoint. I just don't know what more you're looking for.

You honestly think that Dan and Vinny are in their right mind? A few examples of why they are NOT, Adam Archuletta, we made him the highest paid Safety in the league. He started/played in how many games for us? T.J. Ducket, Jason Taylor, the list goes on and on. And, did anyone see what Zorn said about the draft? Apparently the reason we drafted 4 defensive players first in this draft is because we drafted 4 offensive player first last year. Great logic? Please, sir, our FO ranks towards the bottom when it comes to brains.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

You honestly think that Dan and Vinny are in their right mind?

yes I do, even though I may not agree with every pick. Imagine that.

A few examples of why they are NOT, Adam Archuletta, we made him the highest paid Safety in the league. He started/played in how many games for us? T.J. Ducket, Jason Taylor, the list goes on and on.

It's been said many times, many ways - your examples are old, (except JT, and nearly everyone on the board at the time at least understood the move, it was not the same as AA, but we did pay too much). The FO has filled 3 of 4 areas of need very effectively (GTripp I am not counting Hall). LB -good prospects (especially if Wilson can switch to SLB at all), DL - bowing to GTripp again, assuming the scheme and players are used well, the FO has acquired what would appear to be top notch talent that should be here for 3-6 years. Yes the OL is a need, the offseason is not over, but Dockery was a passible start. STs - I love Hunter, and the late rounders all "look" to be aggressive, and maybe one will be a standout.

And, did anyone see what Zorn said about the draft? Apparently the reason we drafted 4 defensive players first in this draft is because we drafted 4 offensive player first last year. Great logic?

Um context is good, we drafted Offense last year, so rather than throwing out last year's 3rd round prospect for the 5th rounder you apparently have so much faith in, they are going to keep developing our guys (isn't this called building through the draft? or are all late rounders supposed to be starters in the 2nd year? I must have missed that lesson)

Please, sir, our FO ranks towards the bottom when it comes to brains.

we have found Superman13732's green kryptonite, it is JC, it causes him to go weak in his arguments
and his red kryptonite is the FO, who knows how that will affect him each time.
There is a cure for this kryptonite though. Knowledge, and lack of impatience, and perhaps Superman CAN Return!!!

[Superman13732]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

yes I do, even though I may not agree with every pick. Imagine that.


It's been said many times, many ways - your examples are old, (except JT, and nearly everyone on the board at the time at least understood the move, it was not the same as AA, but we did pay too much). The FO has filled 3 of 4 areas of need very effectively (GTripp I am not counting Hall). LB -good prospects (especially if Wilson can switch to SLB at all), DL - bowing to GTripp again, assuming the scheme and players are used well, the FO has acquired what would appear to be top notch talent that should be here for 3-6 years. Yes the OL is a need, the offseason is not over, but Dockery was a passible start. STs - I love Hunter, and the late rounders all "look" to be aggressive, and maybe one will be a standout.

they may be old, but they are valid. JT was 34 years old, we gave up to much, and payed too much for him. And what do you attribute our second half demise to last year? our defense? Thats where our "holes" have been filled. Last time i checked they were ranked 4th in the league. Ok, well, then how do you miss the playoffs with the 4th overall defense?

Um context is good, we drafted Offense last year, so rather than throwing out last year's 3rd round prospect for the 5th rounder you apparently have so much faith in, they are going to keep developing our guys (isn't this called building through the draft? or are all late rounders supposed to be starters in the 2nd year? I must have missed that lesson)

Ok, here's the thing. Where were they last year? Kelly was on IR with his DEGENERATIVE knee condition. what does degenerative mean? It means he has the knees of an 80 year old man, according to doctors anyways, google it. Thomas has the most potential out of that draft, and as for Davis, well, I hope he does turn out good, then we can draft him for a 2nd rounder we can use. Yes, i guess i am in the minority here when I say I am like Cooley as a receiving TE and Yoder as a blocking TE? But, let's not worry about these issues yet, they aren't our pressing needs (that was defense right?).

I will EVEN go as far as ignoring Jason Campbell's obvious flaws as QB (Even the respected FO doubts him). I believe, as does every expert in the modern world, that our second half collapse can be attributed to our OL. Yes, I know, i am showing my weakness here by saying I wish we have addressed our real weakness, but I just can't help myself. Dockery was nice. But last time I checked, the right side of our line is still how old? (Jansen and Thomas are both 33)And last time I checked, they weren't the most durable players. But hey, I don't know anything. What was I missing? Oh right! The defense and our special teams was our main issue, since that is what we addressed in this draft.


we have found Superman13732's green kryptonite, it is JC, it causes him to go weak in his arguments
and his red kryptonite is the FO, who knows how that will affect him each time.
There is a cure for this kryptonite though. Knowledge, and lack of impatience, and perhaps Superman CAN Return!!!

And the only thing I am growing impatient with, is waiting for players to develop (i.e. Campbell, going on 5 years, our entire draft last year played how many snaps?) At the rate we are developing players, we are going to develop our All-stars (Portis, Samuels, Moss) into retirement. You can keep the patience, I personally believe someone needs to light a fire under the FO's ass.