Skins Sign O-Lineman Mike Williams

[cobracai1]

[quote=Superman13732;552150]

Originally Posted by Paintrain

Kelly said last week that he is rehabbing from the most recent (January) procedure on the knee and all along the target date was the June mini camp. He can run a straight line but they don't want him cutting right now. Their entire focus is on getting the muscles around the knee stronger because when he hurt it in college he rehabbed but didn't continue to strengthen (maintenance basically) which led to it giving him problems again. He is working the plan to get ready for the season, not a May minicamp. As for 'talent' he was universally considered ready to make an impact based on early showings in camp before his injury popped up.

Kelly has a degenerative knee condition. According to one doctor who looked at him last year he has the knees of an 80 year old man. The injury he suffered in college was a result of that condition. Sad thing is this was popular knowledge before we drafted him.

As for the O-line, you made a valid point about Williams being third string at best, i was reaching for optimism (admittingly a little too far). The left side of our line is solid if Dockery can revert to his pre-Bills Redskins days. But that still leaves us with the right side of the line... Jansen? does anyone here honestly have faith in him? Same goes for Thomas. They are old and frail, how much does that say for Their backups? They can't beat out these frail old men for the starting jobs?

How do we redeem this line? One name. Levi Jones. Not an outstanding player, but far better than whatever we have though. I do see a major problem in this though. No. 1 he has not been released yet, and if the Bengals O-line was as bad as everyone says it was last year, how are they going to release him, and No. 2, if they do in fact release him, what does that say about HIM, he can't keep a job on a lousy team? (and dont give me the "well they drafted Smith with the 6th pick, they don't need Jones anymore" if he is so good, and the bengals line is so bad, they can MOVE HIM AROUND). With that said, where does that leave us? Say goodbye to some more draft picks from next years draft. We had a chance to get some value with the fifth round, Robinson and.... M-something, they were both great value in the fifth round. I'm just not seeing the wisdom here. Standard Dan and Vinny logic.

I and others have given wisdom on this in numerous threads. If these guys are not as good as the guys we already have then what is the purpose of getting them? Don't forget, we dont have a shortage of Olinemen just a shortage of quality (can be debated). If our coaches (Buges included) did not see anyone that he would want over Clark, Rinehart, Heyer, or even Williams then there is no point in drafting them. I'm more excited about the undrafted C from MD Williams. My friends who work for CSN covering the Terps swear that this guy will not disappoint. I just don't know what more you're looking for.

[Lotus]

We need a new CB because Williams mistook Carlos Rogers for his sandwich and swallowed Rogers whole today.

[The Goat]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We need a new CB because Williams mistook Carlos Rogers for his sandwich and swallowed Rogers whole today.

Will you be in the house all week?

[Superman13732]

[quote=cobracai1;552151]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

I and others have given wisdom on this in numerous threads. If these guys are not as good as the guys we already have then what is the purpose of getting them? Don't forget, we dont have a shortage of Olinemen just a shortage of quality (can be debated). If our coaches (Buges included) did not see anyone that he would want over Clark, Rinehart, Heyer, or even Williams then there is no point in drafting them. I'm more excited about the undrafted C from MD Williams. My friends who work for CSN covering the Terps swear that this guy will not disappoint. I just don't know what more you're looking for.

You honestly think that Dan and Vinny are in their right mind? A few examples of why they are NOT, Adam Archuletta, we made him the highest paid Safety in the league. He started/played in how many games for us? T.J. Ducket, Jason Taylor, the list goes on and on. And, did anyone see what Zorn said about the draft? Apparently the reason we drafted 4 defensive players first in this draft is because we drafted 4 offensive player first last year. Great logic? Please, sir, our FO ranks towards the bottom when it comes to brains.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

You honestly think that Dan and Vinny are in their right mind?

yes I do, even though I may not agree with every pick. Imagine that.

A few examples of why they are NOT, Adam Archuletta, we made him the highest paid Safety in the league. He started/played in how many games for us? T.J. Ducket, Jason Taylor, the list goes on and on.

It's been said many times, many ways - your examples are old, (except JT, and nearly everyone on the board at the time at least understood the move, it was not the same as AA, but we did pay too much). The FO has filled 3 of 4 areas of need very effectively (GTripp I am not counting Hall). LB -good prospects (especially if Wilson can switch to SLB at all), DL - bowing to GTripp again, assuming the scheme and players are used well, the FO has acquired what would appear to be top notch talent that should be here for 3-6 years. Yes the OL is a need, the offseason is not over, but Dockery was a passible start. STs - I love Hunter, and the late rounders all "look" to be aggressive, and maybe one will be a standout.

And, did anyone see what Zorn said about the draft? Apparently the reason we drafted 4 defensive players first in this draft is because we drafted 4 offensive player first last year. Great logic?

Um context is good, we drafted Offense last year, so rather than throwing out last year's 3rd round prospect for the 5th rounder you apparently have so much faith in, they are going to keep developing our guys (isn't this called building through the draft? or are all late rounders supposed to be starters in the 2nd year? I must have missed that lesson)

Please, sir, our FO ranks towards the bottom when it comes to brains.

we have found Superman13732's green kryptonite, it is JC, it causes him to go weak in his arguments
and his red kryptonite is the FO, who knows how that will affect him each time.
There is a cure for this kryptonite though. Knowledge, and lack of impatience, and perhaps Superman CAN Return!!!

[Superman13732]

Originally Posted by CRedskinsRule

yes I do, even though I may not agree with every pick. Imagine that.


It's been said many times, many ways - your examples are old, (except JT, and nearly everyone on the board at the time at least understood the move, it was not the same as AA, but we did pay too much). The FO has filled 3 of 4 areas of need very effectively (GTripp I am not counting Hall). LB -good prospects (especially if Wilson can switch to SLB at all), DL - bowing to GTripp again, assuming the scheme and players are used well, the FO has acquired what would appear to be top notch talent that should be here for 3-6 years. Yes the OL is a need, the offseason is not over, but Dockery was a passible start. STs - I love Hunter, and the late rounders all "look" to be aggressive, and maybe one will be a standout.

they may be old, but they are valid. JT was 34 years old, we gave up to much, and payed too much for him. And what do you attribute our second half demise to last year? our defense? Thats where our "holes" have been filled. Last time i checked they were ranked 4th in the league. Ok, well, then how do you miss the playoffs with the 4th overall defense?

Um context is good, we drafted Offense last year, so rather than throwing out last year's 3rd round prospect for the 5th rounder you apparently have so much faith in, they are going to keep developing our guys (isn't this called building through the draft? or are all late rounders supposed to be starters in the 2nd year? I must have missed that lesson)

Ok, here's the thing. Where were they last year? Kelly was on IR with his DEGENERATIVE knee condition. what does degenerative mean? It means he has the knees of an 80 year old man, according to doctors anyways, google it. Thomas has the most potential out of that draft, and as for Davis, well, I hope he does turn out good, then we can draft him for a 2nd rounder we can use. Yes, i guess i am in the minority here when I say I am like Cooley as a receiving TE and Yoder as a blocking TE? But, let's not worry about these issues yet, they aren't our pressing needs (that was defense right?).

I will EVEN go as far as ignoring Jason Campbell's obvious flaws as QB (Even the respected FO doubts him). I believe, as does every expert in the modern world, that our second half collapse can be attributed to our OL. Yes, I know, i am showing my weakness here by saying I wish we have addressed our real weakness, but I just can't help myself. Dockery was nice. But last time I checked, the right side of our line is still how old? (Jansen and Thomas are both 33)And last time I checked, they weren't the most durable players. But hey, I don't know anything. What was I missing? Oh right! The defense and our special teams was our main issue, since that is what we addressed in this draft.


we have found Superman13732's green kryptonite, it is JC, it causes him to go weak in his arguments
and his red kryptonite is the FO, who knows how that will affect him each time.
There is a cure for this kryptonite though. Knowledge, and lack of impatience, and perhaps Superman CAN Return!!!

And the only thing I am growing impatient with, is waiting for players to develop (i.e. Campbell, going on 5 years, our entire draft last year played how many snaps?) At the rate we are developing players, we are going to develop our All-stars (Portis, Samuels, Moss) into retirement. You can keep the patience, I personally believe someone needs to light a fire under the FO's ass.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

And the only thing I am growing impatient with, is waiting for players to develop (i.e. Campbell, going on 5 years, our entire draft last year played how many snaps?) At the rate we are developing players, we are going to develop our All-stars (Portis, Samuels, Moss) into retirement. You can keep the patience, I personally believe someone needs to light a fire under the FO's ass.

We've talked about this before. 5 years ago JC was a junior at Auburn. Please re-adjust your time line.

[Superman13732]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We've talked about this before. 5 years ago JC was a junior at Auburn. Please re-adjust your time line.

My time line?!?!? check your stats, i dont know how the hell this is discussable, he has been on our team for 4 years. Going on 5.

[Lotus]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

My time line?!?!? check your stats, i dont know how the hell this is discussable, he has been on our team for 4 years. Going on 5.

I see you already got it. The number you are looking for is four years, not 5 as you previously stated.

Further, JC rode the bench as a rookie. You're really going to criticize him for not producing then?

The fact is that JC has only about 1 3/4 years experience as a starter. When it comes to being patient with JC, that is the number which needs to be discussed. Not 5 years for sure, not even 4 years, but 1 3/4 years.

[Superman13732]

Originally Posted by Lotus

We've talked about this before. 5 years ago JC was a junior at Auburn. Please re-adjust your time line.

Jason Campbell Stats, News, Photos - Washington Redskins - ESPN

Look at the experience tab...

[Lotus]

Your "experience tab" means that he is going into his 5th year.

Let's do math: It is now April 2009. 5 years ago was April 2004.

JC was drafted in April 2005.

Therefore, in April 2004 or 5 years ago, JC was junior at Auburn.

But I'll tell you what: In order to have 5 NFL years under his belt, JC would have had to play the 2004 season. Find me his NFL stats from 2004 and I'll change my mind. If you cannot find those stats then please change your time line.

[CRedskinsRule]

Originally Posted by Superman13732

they may be old, but they are valid. JT was 34 years old, we gave up to much, and payed too much for him. And what do you attribute our second half demise to last year? our defense? Thats where our "holes" have been filled. Last time i checked they were ranked 4th in the league. Ok, well, then how do you miss the playoffs with the 4th overall defense?

Ok, here's the thing. Where were they last year? Kelly was on IR with his DEGENERATIVE knee condition. what does degenerative mean? It means he has the knees of an 80 year old man, according to doctors anyways, google it. Thomas has the most potential out of that draft, and as for Davis, well, I hope he does turn out good, then we can draft him for a 2nd rounder we can use. Yes, i guess i am in the minority here when I say I am like Cooley as a receiving TE and Yoder as a blocking TE? But, let's not worry about these issues yet, they aren't our pressing needs (that was defense right?).

I will EVEN go as far as ignoring Jason Campbell's obvious flaws as QB (Even the respected FO doubts him). I believe, as does every expert in the modern world, that our second half collapse can be attributed to our OL. Yes, I know, i am showing my weakness here by saying I wish we have addressed our real weakness, but I just can't help myself. Dockery was nice. But last time I checked, the right side of our line is still how old? (Jansen and Thomas are both 33)And last time I checked, they weren't the most durable players. But hey, I don't know anything. What was I missing? Oh right! The defense and our special teams was our main issue, since that is what we addressed in this draft.

And the only thing I am growing impatient with, is waiting for players to develop (i.e. Campbell, going on 5 years, our entire draft last year played how many snaps?) At the rate we are developing players, we are going to develop our All-stars (Portis, Samuels, Moss) into retirement. You can keep the patience, I personally believe someone needs to light a fire under the FO's ***.

First - you defend the fact that you are using old examples by beating a dead horse on JT, when I had said that that one everybody agreed with, and was clearly, in hindsight, an overreaction to losing our 2 DEs on the first day of training camp.

Second - saying we had the 4th ranked D, does make a good sound bite, But we lost SSprings, who was our true shutdown corner -when he played, MW/LF are already going into retirement status (sorry 53Fan), and we ranked I think 30th in sacks and that was clearly an irritant to the fan base and the FO.

Third - can you please provide some links for your understanding of Kelly's knee condition. He was not on IR, although there was talk about putting him on, they did not. I have not seen any talk, except you, that his condition is degenerative in nature.

Fourth - you cite elite teams and gripe about our FO, but look at how those franchises reached their talent level. I will try and speak slowly.
build a scouting department
let scouting department evaluate talent over the year
look at results
trust competent staff
draft accordingly.
(a proof of this method is: it was announced today that Scott Pioli fired a majority of the KC scouting department)
Look for above market talent at below market price
Develop backups at major positions.

Can all of that be done in one draft? no, two-probably not. If last year we took players that we are now counting on contributing, that is not a negative against the FO at this point. If Rinehart and Heyer completely fail, and the 2nd rounders have the same type year, then I will be unhappy, but the fact the FO is depending on players from last year to continue their development, that is not a negative.

Fifth - Patience in football terms is how you develop strong long term programs, we have not been a patient team, and that is what accounts for our up and down seasons. I give every Kudo to the Skins if they learn the lessons of patience from Pitt, NE, and Indy. (again, these teams develop a talent base let it grow and now have reaped the benefits for many sustained years.)

I know -Superman- that you and others may weep and gnash teeth about our FO, and I do not agree with every move, but I don't get paid daily to go evaluate talent, to plan and look at the best ways to improve our team. Most, not all, critics here complain because our FO did not do some "obvious" moves, I tend to have faith that they have researched those moves and maybe, just maybe, they know better than a guy working 50 hours at his primary job and catching the latest internet buzz words.

Only time will tell, but in April/May, I can accept that we have solidly filled 3/4s of our needs going into the offseason, and that we will make strides on that last 25% in the months upcoming.